To really really hate the SNP.

[Twooter]

Got that off my chest.

Calyx I get why you are voting them and I am in no way trying to persuade you not to but I want to understand what if independence doesn't happen. Is it right that some (not all) of their policy's are harming our country and in the case of education our young people yet people are happy to let this go in the person of something that MIGHT never happen.

*Our school is limited to 6 Nat 5s. For some inexplicable reason they start off with 8 subjects in S3 and then have to drop 2 in S4. Has caused huge arguments in this household about what 2 to drop.

I did 8 o grades in the one school and then 5 highers in the same school. Very standard experience.

I really do not understand the rationale of specialising so early. The breadth of education used to be one of the key features of a Scottish education.

A lot of my friends are teachers and they all think curriculum for excellence is utterly dreadful.*

Are you sure this is a Scottish Goverment decision and not one taken at local level, because I have generally never heard of this.

My daughter did 8 Nat 5's and she is doing 5 Highers, nothing has changed that way in her school or in any of the other two high schools in my town. Have friends in other council areas, and their experience is similar to mine

Dam my phone's auto correct. The above should say

, yet oeople are happy to let this go in persuit of something that MIGHT never happen.

Tho official rationale is to have a broad general education up to end of S3. Then in S4, if ready, do national 5s. Doing them in one year gives enough time for 6 subjects only. You are lucky if your council and school have worked around this to let pupils take 8 subjects. If I want my child to do 8 then my option is private school.

Susanne I was the same - 8 standard grades reducing to 5 highers - but it seems that around here most schools are now doing 7 and from what is being said upthread they're either achieving that by technically starting the Nat5 teaching early or squeezing it in to fewer hours than it should really have.

Here's the course choice info for a random school in Dundee - here - in this one they're doing 6 course at S4.

From a randomly selected one in Aberdeen :
"HOW MANY SUBJECTS WILL I STUDY IN S4?
All S4 students will study 6 subjects at National 4 or National 5 levels."

It seems to be awfully common.

I vote SNP. I do want an independent Scotland so that all the parties will have policies which reflect Scottish priorities. I don't like having a 'one party state' any more than many other people. It saddens me to see the demise of labour (and lib dems) in Scotland, but this has happened due to them basing their campaigns/policies on what they think the majority of potential voters in the UK want to hear. They're not reflecting Scottish voters because by doing so they piss off their (majority) English voters. In an independent Scotland, politics would have to change. I don't believe SNP would continue to dominate.

Keeptrudging says it as I see it too (but says it better)

Personally I reckon independence would destroy SNP as a single entity - I think the desire for independence is about the only think many of the members and politicians have in common and I think it would break up if that goal was achieved. For all they currently project a more socialist stance there's a lot of more right wing, "Tartan Tory" types in there too.

Yes, SNP have never hidden the fact that they exist to work towards an independent Scotland. They're a very mixed bunch politically, but with the same main goal. I was a lib dem voter, but (like many others in Scotland) was absolutely disgusted by them forming a coalition with the tories, and supporting tuition fees. They instantly lost my vote. I have voted labour in the past, but can't just now because they're a shambles, plus their need to toe the party line has alienated Scottish voters. Their refusal to work with SNP, even on issues where they have similar policies, was done to appease English voters, but is probably what lost them their core Scottish vote.

I don't mind if independence 'destroys' the SNP - if it happens, they've served their purpose and will then be judged by what they offer compared to other parties.

I think it is fairly obvious that Salmond and Sturgeon are ordering their cybernats to domjnate all social media, and obviously the SNP have infiltrated all of the main polling organisations - the results coming out are far to ridiculous to be believed

What is your definition of a "cyber nat"? And regarding results we wont have too long to wait to find out will we?

I'm not so concerned about the SNP being destroyed by independence, I'm concerned about Scotland being destroyed by independence.

My daughter did 8 Nat 5's and she is doing 5 Highers, nothing has changed that way in her school or in any of the other two high schools in my town. Have friends in other council areas, and their experience is similar to mine

Once again. The only way they can do this is by not following the system as set down by the SNP education plan. Nat 5s are meant to being in S4. given the length of each individual course, there is only room in the timetable to do 6. Schools doing7 or 8 are deviating from the model and stopping the BGE early. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's not the SNP model - it seems to be more popular though amongst all parents and pupils though so read into that what you will.

I'm listening to the BBC call-in about lowering access requirements for university. (For children from poorer areas) The majority of the callers are against it, saying fix education from the bottom up instead of dumbing it down from the top. Totally agree.

I'm utterly horrified at what's happening in education now, both school and universities. The CfE has massively reduced the quality of our children's education, and I've certainly not heard a good word about it from any teacher I've spoken to.

As an aside, did anyone see Nippy being absolutely annihilated by Andrew Neil at the weekend? That man is my hero

Didn't say I was concerned about it (more likely to dance a merry jig at their implosion), just discussing what could happen.

Regarding the so-called cybernats, no idea if they are being ordered from anywhere or anyone but it was certainly true that the Yes campaign really dominated social media in the run up to ref1. If I'd gone by the number of Yes related posts then it should have been a landslide. For whatever reason the No voters were generally a lot quieter on social media. If anything I think this has become more noticeable after the referendum as the Yes voters are effectively still campaigning.

The CfE in primary was just a place for poor teachers to hide imo. Good teachers will be good no matter what system they are working within and I think the situation in High schools is different. But when they took away the need to evidence progression within the primary curriculum you could almost her the lazy and ineffective ones sigh and put their feet up. They could coast through the year and hand the kids on to the next teacher pretty much as they were when they arrived.

No I didn't see that shesparkles I wonder if DH recorded it?

shesparkles Andrew Neil is a god

If anything I think this has become more noticeable after the referendum as the Yes voters are effectively still campaigning.

I agree and my dream scenario should an indyref2 ever occur is that they don't get to word the question and it gets reversed so that they would need to be the No campaign instead - that would delight me more than it should.

Agree wholeheartedly OneMagnum. It's pretty hard to argue against being the "negative campaign" when you're campaigning for the word "no"!

Yup, biggest mistake ever made - but even then they lost. And I'm sick of seeing profiles with "We are the 45" on FB. I'm tempted to rig up a "We are the 55 so fuck off" banner but I'm too polite. I had to delete people and some I couldn't as it would create to much of an issue (family) so I just had to block their mutant vitriol from my news feed. It's been fun....

The last school in Highland to insist on 8 subjects at N5 in S4 has just been forced to comply and go down to 6. So, policy is that pupils at the age of 14 are choosing their exit route from school and making decisions that will, ultimately, restrict their options when they leave.

And they are competing with pupils from elsewhere in the Uk with 8-10 GCSEs who are only making the final, crucial, choice of subjects at 16. I know the systems are very different but.......

My (lack of) support for independence is due solely to my head and not my heart. The figures didn't (and now with current oil prices definitely don't) stack up. Everyone in Scotland would suffer - they would have a lower standard of living for a generation at the very least.... and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is not living in the real world.
By all means vote for independence with your heart - on principle but do it with your eyes open and accepting the consequences.

I have an ok life at the moment - a lower standard of living I could probably bear (although I'd probably escape down to England because I can afford to, have moved around a lot so don't really have ties anywhere any more).
What about the ones who are at the bottom - the poorest in society. The ones who were probably traditionally Labour supporters, a lot of who are voting for the SNP's vision... could they afford a drop in their already low standard of living?
They are the ones who will suffer most, as always happens in times of austerity - and Scottish independence would make the current UK austerity crisis look like a picnic. And they are the ones who couldn't really afford to move (unless they pack up just what they can carry and walk down to the border).
One reason I detest the SNP so much is that - they blame food banks on Westminster - whilst having money in their budget to fight poverty - why would you do that unless you wanted to try and keep people miserable?
If they have a contented life, they are less likely to want change - sneakily keep people miserable, blame someone else and then ask if they'd like a change -and what answer do you think you'll get?

Onemagnum, CfE is far worse re workload and need for 'evidence progression'. I have to disagree. Lazy teachers used to be able to hide the fact that their classes weren't making progress, simply by teaching to the test, then providing sneaky help during the administration of the tests in order to ensure the class all passed. They then handed their class on to the next teacher, who was made to look like a crap teacher because their seemingly high-achieving class failed to progress. Done correctly, the tests were fair, but abuse was rife.

I don't think anyone breathed a sigh of relief when CfE was introduced. Good teachers are leaving in droves because the job has become unrecognisable. I know very few 'lazy' teachers, it's just not possible with the additional paperwork/need for evidence that CfE generates. I know quite a few unimaginative teachers though. They seem better equipped to cope with the endless ticking of boxes/evidencing, they've only ever taught under CfE.

Now now unlucky83, stop kidding yourself now. You know that it was rich, old selfish people who were against independence because we didn't care about making life better for the poorest. which of course would have happened if we voted yes.

unlucky are you me? I couldn't agree enough. You can't point any of this out to the party faithful or you are just negative and a dooms merchant. I am not the richest person on earth but I know what it's like to live in and be brought up in poverty. I want more for Scotland's children and I'm willing to pay more to achieve that. The SNP and independence simply wont deliver that. I know I'm not alone in feeling like that.