To really really hate the SNP.

[Twooter]

Got that off my chest.

Calyx You've read the thread and are obviously entitled to vote how you like, but I genuinely can't understand a wish to be independent taking priority over getting policies right for the people of Scotland.

Given the anecdotal evidence on this thread mainly surrounding education and it's current state/ but also NHS waiting times and targets missed etc under the SNP watch, surely you can recognise that blowing the budget on another referendum campaign would be a massive disservice to the people of Scotland.

Get the house in order and then make your case.

To be fair when I was a yoof I thought very much like Calyx. However I grew up and the world changed and we are in very different position now. I think everyone should read the latest GERs before deciding who to vote for. NS will take every vote for the SNP as a mandate for indyref 2. She won't want to leave it too long as she wants to be the woman who delivers it. The numbers don't stack up. I'm not going to lay the blame for the drop in oil prices at their door, but their estimates were way off even without the drop. The undeniable fact is that we are sitting in a massive black hole because we spend more than we have. Also an independent Scotland sitting with a massive and increasing deficit is not going to make us an attractive prospect for Brussels. I just can't see then ushering in NS for a wee dram and a cosy chat. It'll be a "come back when you've got better prospects" thing instead.

magnum I'm not an expert but before I had enhanced disclosure that could be used for multiple things - although some groups (and the school) preferred to do their own. And PVG is a good idea - once you were disclosed you were more or less disclosed for life - if you got a conviction unless you went for a new disclosure or your employer renewed them every so often no-one would know ...
The PVG database is run by Disclosure Scotland and is continuously updated and they notify employers of convictions. You join the scheme then have to do an update for every role (so they know who they need to notify). It cost £59 and £18 for an update (but is free for volunteer groups -just like disclosure - that cost about £30 if you had to pay)

Actually if you don't work directly with vulnerable groups you can still use enhanced disclosure...so someone doing just the admin for a youth group who rarely had contact with the children probably could still just be enhanced disclosed (but it quite complicated - it was something like that I was asking about and was referred to a 140 page long document!).
It was introduced in early 2011 but SNP have had responsibility for the organisation/implementation since. Everyone (teachers/hospital staff/care home staff etc, etc ) had to move from disclosure to PVG by last Oct....it was supposed to be gradual and managed but it doesn't seem like it was as IME there were massive delays to new applications and updates from last Nov. (They say they should take 2 weeks- we got one from Nov at the end of Jan) ...it seemed like chaos - lots of lost paperwork etc. (I had previous dealings with them and they send out bad computer generated letters which just don't make sense!)
However seeing if it was reported I came across this
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/disclosure-scotland-funding-cut-sparks-abuse-fears-1-3980260
And I am assuming these cuts haven't happened yet ...

That's also quite scary, unlucky. £800 000 budget reduced from

£6.5million just like that. If only they could give them the t I the park money.
www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/snp-in-cronyism-row-over-t-in-the-park-grant-1-3855346

Twooter only £6.5million, they have already spent £61million on the named persons act, I wonder how big the bill will be before it comes into legislation and I wonder how much it will cost us year on year.

If teachers are struggling now I wonder how much more they will struggle when they need to assess and monitor childrens wellbeing as well as educate them.

Mintchoc 'getting policies right for Scotland' I feel that can't happen until we are independent. Tory policies are much much worse for Scotland than anything SNP have done so far.

GERS figures and the black hole again are Westminster/Scotland finances. No reflection on what an independent Scotland's finances will do. Can't begin to guess how it will work. Losing Trident and not having to pay for wars or vanity projects.

I don't want to annoy folk but wanted to let you know why I'm voting SNP and don't hate them even if they do some things wrong. They can't be as wrong for Scotland as Labour have been or as Tories are.

Peggy - what I meant is that they've cut the budget from £6.5m to only £800,000 for PVGs. So imagine how many people they'll have working on PVGs within that budget.

Found out friend's dc's option choices at age 13 - all 4 options were 'soft' fun subjects.

Calyx, Eden yes we can. A lot of the items are already under the control of the SNP. The simple fact is that we spend more than we make. Being independent won't change that. If you think the SNP are suddenly going to become a socialist party after independence or that there will be a Labour party to vote for then you are deluded. They don't care about the people other than as pawns for their independence game. None of the parties are perfect but SNP are the worst option at the moment. Sleekit NS would argue black was white (and dedicate millions to the cause) if she thought there were votes in it. They have encouraged the existence of food banks whilst they had millions unspent in a budget set aside to help with poverty. Why?

No Calyx. Stop regurgitating Wings over Scotland and get with reality.

GERs are the Scottish governments figures. The white paper was based on them, the Wee blue book of deception was based on them and I can go and find a video of Alex Salmonf saying they are the definitive account of Scotland's finances.

You don't just get to ignore them when they don't say what you want.

Next week if we were independent that is the basis on which we would be negotiating entry to Europe and borrowing to service the debt. With a deficit worse than Greece. We would have kissed bye bye to all the free prescriptions, education etc and be facing much deeper austerity cuts.

Getting rid of trident would not make up for even a billion of that deficit and if you think it's bad now, next year's will be far worse as the oil price collapsed further in 2015.

Cally what Tory policies do you think are worse for Scotland?

I would also be interested to know what parts of the Westminster funding model are wrong that cause our issues.

Oh and by the way, we don't pay for the vanity projects already and there's no such thing as whisky export duty. I can link to sources if you are unable to do some independent research yourself.

Not ignoring but heading to work. NHS privatisation is my main Tory issue and I believe Wings over Scotland about money. I think Scotland needs to self govern and can't until independent. That's why I will continue to vote SNP.

So what figures, exactly, are we supposed to judge the potential suitability of independence on if GERS (produced by the Scottish Government) is not good enough? You can certainly start from GERS and make adjustments e.g. taking out any cost of Trident which has been included - but that cuts both ways i.e. you need to add in the costs of separation and setting up the various agencies and government functions which we don't currently have.

The figures had a giant hole in them at the last referendum, I spent a huge amount of time analysing them as I suspect a few of the posters I recognise from the indyref threads might remember cos I bored 'em to tears with stats.
The White Paper based its oil revenue on $110 per barrel, along with production figures which were optimistic. Between low prices and production my understanding is that the White Paper was using oil revenue figures which are about 10 times higher than actually materialised.

I picked apart numerous Wings postings about money. Their little blue book was full of nonsense, genuinely. They were worse than the Treasury for producing selective figures and that's saying something.

Can I just also point out that if they have spent £61m on NP so far, then how exactly did they think the costs of separation would only be £200m? That one figure alone should be setting massive alarm bells ringing in your head. The SNP deliberately misled voters.

And Westminster are increasing spending on the NHS at a rate far in excess of that of the SNP whilst they have been given the same amount from Westminster to spend. I can't remember the exact figures but it's something like 7% compared to 1.5%

I think if you have to use Wings Over Somerset to back up your argument it is pretty much an admission that your argument is completely without a credible foundation.

I must confess that I rather enjoyed his strop as the Indyref results came through. But then I had a few unpleasant run ins on twitter where daring to say you didn't agree had hoards of people tweeting to him (and then the followers) to "help them stop me".

But the same people also said I was ridiculous and incorrect for saying that the economy of the UK as a whole was "more diverse" than that of Scotland alone.

I think it is fairly obvious that Salmond and Sturgeon are ordering their cybernats to domjnate all social media, and obviously the SNP have infiltrated all of the main polling organisations - the results coming out are far to ridiculous to be believed.

That would be hilariously funny if I believed you seriously believed that

Yanbu

Hate snp too. Divisive and nasty.

Went to school with our snp candidate and never liked her

Our sitting labour msp is useless but the only person other than snp who could get the seat.

My second vote is going to the tories. Yes I said it. A Scottish and disabled woman is voting Tory.

You might be right about money guys but I will still vote SNP for independence and self governance. I don't hate no voters (lots of my family and friends) and I'm not a politician myself obviously. It's probably an emotional thing rather than a money thing. I strongly believe Scotland will do well after an initial transition period.

Clayx72 NHS Scotland is devolved from NHS England and has nothing to do with the tories and has been for a long time now. The way the NHS is run in Scotland is squarely down to the SNP and confirmed by Scottish govt health secretary...

As someone else pointed out Westminster rises the a,punt of spending on NHS and Scotland has benefitted from this. The below paragraph is taken from the Scottish govt. web site showing funding has gone up.

"15 of £12 billion reflects an increase of £138.1 million over 2013-14. This comprises resource funding of £11.6 billion, net capital funding of £254 million and annually managed expenditure of £100 million. Resource funding has increased by £284.6 million in 2014-15, from £11,321.8 million to £11,606.4 million. This is the full amount of the budget consequentials arising from the increase to health in England and delivers on the Scottish Government’s commitment to pass on the resource budget consequentials in full to the health budget in Scotland."

And that's fine Calyx - but at least admit it's ideological rather than trying to make statements about the figures which blatantly aren't true and aren't even supported by the SNP.

I personally have a lot more respect for the Yes voters who believe it's the right thing, have done their research and are aware of the sort of shortfalls we could have and the potential problems and choose to say "I know x could happen, it's a risk I accept" compared to the ones who tried to tell us there were no risks and live in White Paper/Wings la la land.