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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To wish someone cared?

106 replies

elementofsurprise · 11/03/2016 12:29

I'm the only one who stands up for me or thinks i'm worth anything. I tried to reach out to a friend for support on FB - someone who has previously been shocked a stuff I've been through and been positive about me - and they blanked me. I don't understand this. The evidence suggests no-one can care about me, and if they do it's a mistake. I have been through stuff I can't deal with. I feel dirty and used and frightened. But I am always treated like I am bad and wrong and overreacting if I need support - I am treated differently from others. I have posted here before about my appalling expereinces within the MH system and how I can't get any help or support (have tried private too, but therapist "dumped" me, saying I was too fucked up basiclly, and needed more support - I cannot afford what I apprently need privately).

I try so hard to keep going every day but it's only me on my side and I just wish there was someone there who would give me a hug and not think I'm a bad person or expect things of me and be disappointed with me. It would help bear the pain so much. Is it wrong to wish someone cared? Am I bad? I don't need anyone to do anything, just care, maybe listen sometimes. But people just want to give me self-help tips - I have these coming out my ears. I'd just like someone to not have a vague or overt disaproval of me, or blaming me. Someone who just says "gosh, that must be hard, you poor thing". Someone rooting for me, and who doesn't act like I've done something wrong if I'm hurting. Am I bad for this? Is it wrong?

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 13/03/2016 21:42

also aibu was specific about whether its ok to wish someone cared or whether thats a bad thing I shouldnt feel.

I'm still a bit confused on that front, but certainly theres a big discrepancy between the 'official' line and the reality - ie. feeling you must bottle up or be a burden would get officially pooh poohed but actually its true. Wish people bore that in mind when they say to "reach out" and things though! Gets very difficult having to keep explaining why actually thats not a good idea.

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 13/03/2016 21:47

rock ok... so I shouldn't feel bad for needing support, but also should know i wont get/there isnt support? Something like that? Hrmm. Sort of makes sense. will sleep on it, not been sleeping, quite tired now. Thanks everyone x

OP posts:
Lurkedforever1 · 13/03/2016 21:58

To answer the question, no, it's entirely normal and reasonable to want support with mh. And even without mental illness, entirely normal to want the security of knowing there is someone to depend on. But wanting or needing won't ever make it happen, cos we can only control our own actions, not anybody elses.

I'm really pleased an old friend has got in touch when you needed a boost, but just try not to invest too much in it too quickly.

elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 06:44

People dont seem to udestand how bad things are atm. Its not "needing a boost" it's suicidal, having to constantly dstract myself for a week now, feeling anxious and sick and urges to self harm (i never normally do this), often not being bale to get out of bed. It's crisis and not going away, i dont understand, this doesnt normally happen, not like this for this long. I feel sick, all my past is in my head and i want to hurt mysef to make it go away. Sorry.

i knew things were going downhill weeks ago which is why I actually asked a friend for a change. So telling me not to "invest too much" in it, well there is nothing else, just nightmaresa and horror, so either i let kindness and friendship in and help or i block it out. things are REALLY BAD so struggling without a friend isnt a result of the friend buggering off, its a result of me being traumatised and ill to start with iyswim. is so frighteneing and confusing being expected to know the right thig to do when i can barely think, i dont know the answers but people expect me to. And the professionals and some posters on here will just tell you togo and see friends, well everyone gives cotradictory advice and seems cross with me when their advice is inapporpriate or doesnt work, and cos everyone gives contadictory advice someone is always cross cos I cant do it all. I wish people wouldnt expect me to know what to do when im in so much pain and all the rules about whats right thing to do keep changing.

OP posts:
giantpurplepeopleeater · 14/03/2016 07:24

Element. You appear to be feeling a bit better now that you've spoken to a friend. I'm glad about this. Although I realise that doesn't mean that you are feeling great, and still have an awful lot going on.

You asked specifically about whether it's wrong to want/ need support, its not at all, and in fact finding love and support is a pretty basic human desire.

I think where things get tricky (and I believe you mentioned MH workers may have said similar - and they certainly did to me) is when you place your self worth entirely in the hands of the others. I suffer with MH issues, and this was an issue for me.

My therapist worked a lot with me on the fact that you have to feel ok with yourself and your own decisions, and realise that your own self worth is not dictated by how other people treat or react to you. A kind of 'love yourself' message.

I think other posters here have tried to explain that the way people are, and the way they react to you/ other people/ problems - is more about THEM than it is about you. People have many reasons for doing what they do, reasons unknown to you. Your friends reasons for not replying are known only to HIM. They are no reflection on you as a person, or any indication of how worthwhile or otherwise you are.

You need to work on getting to a place where you don't interpret other peoples actions as meaninh you are shit and a burden and a horrible person. Easier said than done I know.

But having said that, a desire to have people around to love and be loved by, to talk to and to help each other out isn't wrong.

elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 12:33

Thng is, if only i think I'm worth anything, then I could very easily be wrong.

Plus, in general, my past and the horrible stuff thats happened makes me feel worthless... (i've been homeless, and I wasn't allowed help, I was treated like scum for eg.... makes me feel like im not the same as others, i've been epected to go through hell alone and criticised not supported). Logically I must be worth the same as others, but if the general consensus is that i'm not, then how can I go on, even if it's not true? iyswim.

And I was ALREADY feeling horrific, I was just trying to hold on to 'evidence' that I wasnt in the form of someone who had appeared to think well of me previously. Plus clearly I am not worth much to HIM if he treats me like this. It might not reflect badly on me or mean im worthless, but it DOES mean im not worth much to him, so casts a doubt over any nice stuff he's said before.

MH workers haven't said anything that coherant to me, no.

OP posts:
Organon8 · 14/03/2016 13:05

but it DOES mean im not worth much to him

You are thinking to deeply about this. You seem to be unable to accept that people blank others for all sorts of reasons. Can you not accept he might have issues going on himself?

AmyGMumsnet · 14/03/2016 13:26

Hi elementofsurprise,

We're really sorry you're having such a rough time of it.

We've had lots of reports from people who are really worried about you.

We hope you don't mind, but when we're made aware of threads like this we usually add a link to our Mental Health resources - here. There are lots of organisations listed there that may be able to offer you some support right now. You can also go to the Samaritans' website here, or email them on [email protected]. Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as other MNers will tell you, it's really a good idea to keep seeking real life help and support as well.

Sorry to jump on your thread OP, and we really hope things get better for you soon Flowers

AutumnMadness · 14/03/2016 13:52

element, sorry for butting into this discussion so late. I am not sure how helpful at all I am going to be, but - are you taking any medication? I am sure you have been asked this before. However, this is not the first time you post here about your problems and I do not recall you saying anything about medication before.

I have not experienced depression myself, but my DH has long-term diagnosed depression and anxiety issues and what you write about yourself fits with his behaviour and his conception of himself. From what I know from years of interaction with my DH, depression/anxiety is a strange combination of rock-bottom self-esteem and a rather narcissistic self-centred view of the world. You say that you feel worthless and yet you demand recognition and approval from the world. My DH, for instance, had a near constant need for approval, everything revolved around him. He would ask me multiple times a day whether something he said or did was ok or not. He could not just do or say something. It had to receive official external stamp of approval. I find your need for external approval very similar.

My DH also constantly monitored the behaviour of others for sings of whether they approved of him or not. Every little gesture was analysed - how somebody looked at him, whether they said hello or not. Anything anybody did was always interpreted as relating to himself. For instance, a co-worker was not allowed to blank my DH just because he had a bad day at home. My DH always interpreted the blanking as the co-worker having a problem with him. It is almost as if the world and other people within it are not allowed an existence that is independent from DH. Again, this is something that is very prominent in your posts. You do not allow other people to have feelings and thoughts of their own. You speak about others only in the relation to yourself, as if you are the centre of their world.

The truth of the matter, as multiple people told you already, is that there is no external reference point against which we can measure our worth. Seeking it is a futile quest that will only lead to using other people as a means for feeling better. And whatever other people say to you, it will never ever be enough because there will always be other people who have not yet provided their approval or other situations where approval has not yet been given. Seeking your own worth in the approval given by others is an endless and futile undertaking. No matter how much others praise you, you will always feel that you are lacking.

The only way out is to find the reference point within yourself. Yes, it is not "objective". Yes, there is no way of knowing whether you are "correct" in your evaluation of yourself or not. But this is normal. There is no one objective truth out there about anyone, no one objective measure of the good. We are all alone in our own truths. And it's OK to be so. The path to internal peace does not lie though approval by others but in the acceptance that every single human being, including yourself, has a precious private world inside, a world that is valuable without the need to be "true" or "correct". It's really like that spoon quote from the Matrix: "There is no spoon. It is not the spoon that bends, but only yourself."

I feel that depression and anxiety at least partly derive from existential angst. People grapple with their own mortality, with the point of their existence, all of which are seriously scary subjects. But - it's OK not to have a point to your existence. Just existing, without any point, is wonderful in itself. You do not need for somebody to come and give meaning to it. There is no measure of good out there, just a load of stars and planets and galaxies that do not give a shit about what is good and what is bad but look rather nice nonetheless.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 14/03/2016 14:40

Autumn that's such a well put post, I think it's spot on with the misplaced external locus of self worth. I'm still in a rather bad way myself but with some really good counselling (a first for me!), I can feel myself flipping in and out of that mental shift, and boy does the world seem bleak and cruel when I've slipped into the 'search for external validation' mode... People seem meaner, everything gets so hard and as its looking in the wrong place and in the wrong way for yourself, it becomes a spiral of anxiety, depression and the bleak, weight of misery is almost too much to bear.

It's like navigating rapids when your life jacket is filled with stones... The current drags you under and you cannot breathe.

But honestly, there is a way out and if you can flick that switch it's like you are in a different world. Honestly it's worth striving for. I cannot describe how much easier living is when you switch the locus of self.

AutumnMadness · 14/03/2016 15:01

MiscellaneousAssortment, yes, that how my DH describes it. And I have glimpsed it myself. The knowledge that there is no external measure out there is really scary, and I am not just saying it for the sake or a beautiful turn of phrase. It's like staring in the abyss. I've been lucky enough so far to either face this fear and deal with it or ignore it (I am really not sure which it is), but I can see how one may slide into it . . . Good luck, really. The ability to make a brainswitch like you do must take enormous strength, so you know you are strong.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 14/03/2016 15:56

Thanks :) I'm not there yet but enough to glimpse that other world and have the faith in it to keep on aiming everything at getting there.

I think it's very hard to do that when you're in crisis so I worry that the OP won't be able to relate to this as it might seem just so alien or so far away.

I hope she manages to get a few rays of sunshine and some practical support to help break through the unrelenting pain and misery. It's an awful place to be.

Being kind of yourself is a big part of it. Not setting tasks and forcing yourself to do it and appreciate it, which is miserable and not helpful. It sounds like the OP is almost bullying herself into enforced 'this MUST be good for me / make me happier and if it's not then I've failed and I'm shit' - and that's always going to be awful, especially if she's done it because that's what people have told her must help her...

It's about changing the internal voice from desperately seeking out a source of validation or comfort, then getting hurt and angry and generally heavy on the self hatred when it fails.

Just being quiet in yourself and saying very gently, well done me, I'm living through a horrible time but it's ok, I just loved through that 5 mins. Or thinking of giving yourself nice things because you need taking care of now and all the time, 'breathe in the softener smell on your duvet, and wrap yourself up warm and snug, thinking softly but loud enough for you to hear 'that's because you are worth taking care of, here's some love and care for you'

I know it sounds ridiculous, or hackneyed, but if you spend 24/7 chastising yourself for not being well, or not deserving care and love, then you end up joining the other side, the dark side!

Flowers
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 16:45

Autumn I think you've missed the point a bit. Im struggling with nightmares and memories of my past, struggling to see any hope for the future, and generally in huge pain and not really able to think clearly/do stuff... sort of no concentration for 5 mins, everything seems very complicated and i feel sick and frightened. Because of this, having friend to speak to is helpful, i dont expect to be the centre of the universe Hmm. But because I dont see myself as the centre of the universe, I would look out for others even as I was in pain (ie. even if i couldnt be supportive, I'd not blank them). I get that others wouldnt do that, but accusing me of being self-centred when I appear to be more considerate than those around me is quite painful. Sorry to say that but I am trying to stand up for mysef here cos i am sinking. Actually I am more suited to community type thing where everyone supports each other (have had times in life like this, sadly community has dispersed with people moving etc). I find the nightmares easier to deal with when i can be supportive of others too.

Im also not worrying about my existence having a point. Im literally in pain and not coping with my past, i keep sort of "coming to" myself with a jolt and remembering my life is as it's been. I feel so ashamed and worthless for things actually i shouldnt, but its so hard to be the only one who comforts me. Sorry, I sound really ungrateful for your post, im not, sorry. The objectivity thing... im scared of accidentally being not good enough and not realising, like those MILs we hear of on here who just plough on regardless!

I cant deal with my past, trying to block it out but feels there no future either. Any tips for doing this?

Misc thank you
Just being quiet in yourself and saying very gently, well done me, I'm living through a horrible time but it's ok

I think going to the GP didnt help... i find this an issue with professionas in general... they dont do the gentle encouragment thing. GP suggested I do more aerobic exercise and volunteer work, when I'd done my best to actually manage a shower before seeing him. I feel like whatever I do, people expect more. so I try to be nice to myself etc but then when it gets really bad I get confused as to whether I should seek help or not.

MN have illustrated my earlier point wonderfully - the official line is always about seeking help but the truth is actually you need to be fine alone. This gets very confusing and contradictory'in the moment' though! Am expecting call from GP so am going to try to explain, he is new to the surgery so maybe thats why he didnt 'get it' and other than that he seemed nice and... effective so could be helpful.

Ah the birds are singing now, made me cry, will go for a walk.
thank you xxx

OP posts:
AutumnMadness · 14/03/2016 17:21

element, you find "the official line is always about seeking help but the truth is actually you need to be fine alone" contradictory and confusing. Perhaps try thinking about it this way using the parent-child metaphor. A parent helps the child to become independent and eventually detach from the parent and lead an independent life. In the same way, you are encouraged to seek help. But the point is for other people to help you find the strength within yourself and eventually stand on your own feet as opposed to rely on them for approval. So yes, you seek help in order to feel fine alone. Because nobody can tell you who you are.

I hope you feel better soon and that you have a good talk with the new GP.

PrancingQueen · 14/03/2016 17:44

Autumnand Miscellaneous - you both write so well. Your posts are very insightful.
Thanks for posting - I hope they help the OP

elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 17:54

oh god, that was awful. I dont know whats happning with me. Had to go into supermarket, managed ok until some weirdos were standing way too close at the checkout, breathing down the back of my neck which was making me shaky and sick and kept making mistakes with the automatic till.

Then someone i know randomly walked up and handed me something theyd borrowed, whilst i was trying to sort out the checkout, they then walked off and disapeared before we could chat or even i could know wtf was going on. Meanwhile the two men behind were champing at the bit to get to the checkout whilst i was confused and shaky.

Finally got through and got outside, and for some reason the road was suddenly really busy and all cars were honking and it was frightening and overwhelming. Feel so stupid and crap. Then tried to call a friend I was maybe going to see tonight and for some reason the phone was really quiet and he got cross with me and hung up, twice. Have written about him on here before though, he has from for being a dick.

Feel all confused and back to square one, its horrible living somewhere where you bump into people who make it clear they dont give a fuck. Imiss the community, the nice people. that meant a lot

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 18:25

Autumn But the point is for other people to help you find the strength within yourself and eventually stand on your own feet as opposed to rely on them for approval. So yes, you seek help in order to feel fine alone.

But I've never had the bit where people are supportive whilst I heal and can then be fine alone. Consistency has not featured in my life. Even services - which i first turned to aged 19 - have been wildly inconsistent and generally want nothing to do with me (intitially cos they would exclude anyone supected of being bpd, now cos they have no resources). I have spent my life trying to make a consistent, stable home, with consistent, stable (ha!) friends. I only got my own flat a few years back, it is my sanctuary. For a short while there was more of a community where i live, which helped, but sadly didnt last long due to people moving away etc.

I know exaclty what you mean though, and it used to frustrate me so much that MH services would refuse help on the basis that I might "become reliant on servies" and I actually pointed out to them that people need help for a bit then they can heal and manage ok alone (I compared it to a broken leg needing a cast and crutches for a bit). But I dont think i'll ever have the bit where Im loved and supported, do you think its possible to get better without that?

OP posts:
AutumnMadness · 14/03/2016 19:41

element, you see, it's actually impossible to answer your questions. Yes, you need consistency and people who would support you. At the same time a definitive thing that depression does is distort perception. This means that the consistency and support may be there, but you do not see them as such. I am really not being condescending or patronising here. It's just that I've seen my DH completely misinterpret multiple situations or plaining not see things when they are staring straight into his face. He would interpret colleagues just walking by thinking their own stuff as "blanking him" (actually using your exact words. "Blanking" is a theme, I believe). He would accuse me for "not being supportive" when I stand by his side, talk to him through his issues and ponder solutions for hours, days and years on end.

So yes, NHS mental health provision is shit. But it may just be the case that you are seeing it as more shit than it really is. It's a bit of a catch-22: depression warps your perception of the help you are given which stops you from accessing the help which makes the depression worse.

You talked multiple times on this thread about how people are blanking you or being bad to you. And multiple people pointed out to you that your perception of their motivations may not be accurate. So far you have not been willing to explore this avenue. This makes me consider whether you also may not have made an entirely fair assessment of MH services (e.g. you did not answer my question about medication).

Now, this warped perception does not mean that you are in any way bad, inadequate or warped yourself. Just as my chronic physical problems do not define me, your distorted perception need not define you. What it does mean though is that's it probably will be helpful if you find that little corner of your mind that can stand apart from the rest of your brain and say "Is it really as bad as I think it is? Can I see this differently?"

PrancingQueen, thanks!

elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 19:58

Believe me ive been through hell with the NHS mental health system. No doubt you dont believe me though, just like any abuse people will deny and minimalise. this is one reason i feel so alone with it. there are threads in mental health that have told the reality of what it can be like for some people. When i needed homeless help, aving services tell the council i was a waste of tie and not to help me!

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 19:59

re. meds have tried various anti d's but nothigs worked yet

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 20:01

And talking about multiple times people blanking me? No, ive talked about one incident, where i sked a fiend if they had time for a chat and got balnked. Which i would never do to someone else. Other really shite stuff has happened to me i've referred to - but if you think people lying, stealing and raping is fine perhaps i am overeacting.

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 20:06

I've been back to the nhs time and time again. Ive trusted them every time, and had the trust broken. Ive believed this time they will help, only to be shunted from pillar to post, a zillion assessment appts and then discharged. i am scared of going to A&E or whatever in crisis, becaue the dismissive attitude is likely to tip me over. I made the decision that I am better without them cos it feels like an abusive realtionship, where i keep hoping they'll treat me right and im desperately trying to please them in the hope they'll help me........ and i've had to go bck on that decision and beg for help again. I dont know whats right, i dont know the way forward, im just so worn out of all this pain and i cant deal with the memories and things and having to explain again and again and still not be understood is tearing me up right now.

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 20:18

for years i just keep looking forward, blanking out my past as soon as stuff happened. just kept trying and looking to the future. Then when i thought i was finally happy and safe, i broke down. It all came flooding back. Sorry to sound angry, its just i denied to myself the stuff that happened and that i didnt deserve it for so long, told myself to blot it out and i was overreacting. Since i was a small child ive been expected to not have any emotions and any evidence of them is 'overreacting' or misbehaving. so its a very sore spot. I'd give anything to have a hug and be allowed to cry without being told off

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 14/03/2016 20:27

nevermind i will go now, i kow its not bad to want a hug but also i wont get one/or support etc. so not disappointed or vulnerable.

OP posts:
Organon8 · 14/03/2016 20:36

No, ive talked about one incident, where i sked a fiend if they had time for a chat and got balnked

Whether one incident or more, being blanked is just part of life however unpleasant it may be

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