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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why would someone say this about vaccines? Is it odd?

586 replies

PuzzlingPanda · 09/03/2016 19:59

Was in a health food shop today and mentioned an ongoing issue I'm having with one of my do.

The man mentioned he thought the biggest thing going wrong with our children was all the vaccines they receive. He said they full of nasties, designed to make people ill.

It could be put down to a man having a pointless rant but why would he say this? Is there any sort of truth in it?

Not the first time I've heard negative things about vaccines.

Now I'm worried about it.

OP posts:
shinynewusername · 11/03/2016 12:04

There are at least 2 very well known doctors who have publicly stated concerns. Both practice privately I think now

Making a fortune by offering unproven and potentially unsafe 'alternatives' to vaccines. So they are hardly an unbiased source, are they?

hollinhurst84 · 11/03/2016 12:05

Moonrise - I will do. I have neutropenia but not caused by cancer, and take GCSF to increase my neutrophil count

GreatFuckability · 11/03/2016 12:10

GPs who make bonuses from vaccines are not unbiased either then, if being paid makes you so, are they?

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 12:41

Making a fortune by offering unproven and potentially unsafe 'alternatives' to vaccines. So they are hardly an unbiased source, are they?

I don't think the same vaccines that are offered on the NHS in certain circumstances or used to be prior to multiples being available can be considered either unproven or unsafe

They're mainly not as cost effective to the NHS...

JanetOfTheApes · 11/03/2016 12:44

These people say they are being charged in a conspiracy to try and force people to vaccinate their children, which they don't believe in doing.
In reality they are charged with letting their child die slowly and painfully from meningitis, while they gave him maple syrup and cider vinegar.

www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcneal/a-toddler-died-of-meningitis-after-his-parents-allegedly-tri#.dn47Wa3OJ

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2016 12:53

"Making a fortune by offering unproven and potentially unsafe 'alternatives' to vaccines. So they are hardly an unbiased source, are they?"

No they're not. They are offering the same vaccines that you can get on the NHS- at extremely inflated prices.

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 13:03

No they're not. They are offering the same vaccines that you can get on the NHS- at extremely inflated prices*

Except you can't get them on the NHS anymore or only in certain circumstances

For instance I wanted my DS to have protection against I think it might be W also as I knew he'd be given the ACWY jab if we visited an African country we had planned to... I didn't see the point in doing MenC in his baby vaccines then again separately an ACWY when I could cover both with this vaccine which coincidentally was aluminium free so could allay any fears (at the time) I had about that.

I didn't think it was that bad tbh what I paid a few years ago for it

StarUtopia · 11/03/2016 14:59

My vaccinated son had whooping cough. He was really quite poorly with it. In hospital etc. So being vaccinated does not guarantee that you won't get the illness.

Glad that the comment I made has got some posters thinking about their own immunity status.

Re. the MMR. For me, it's not even about autism. As it happens, I personally just object to all of that in one vaccine. Far too much (in my opinion )for a baby to contend with. I deliberated going down the single vaccine route, but for the moment, I'm not. The risk of contracting measles is incredibly slight. The risk of dying, miniscule. He's at more risk of dying from crossing the road or getting in a car (none of you can argue that fact) My own brother reacted horrifically to the singles measles vaccine (before MMR) and ended up with meningitis. Nearly died.

I really do find the nastiness of some 'pro' people quite eye opening however! Really unncecessary. In the end, we're all just trying to work out the best for our children and whichever route you take, you take a risk. Fact.

leedy · 11/03/2016 15:18

"The risk of contracting measles is incredibly slight. "

Really, it's not incredibly slight if there's a local measles outbreak and he's in even slight contact with infected people. Measles is extremely contagious. Like, you can catch it by being in a room that an infected person has been in levels of contagious. My DP's nephew caught it (when too young to be vaccinated, and was very very ill) from an outbreak in his nursery, and the outbreak happened because there weren't enough immune people in the community after the MMR scare.

(though why might there not be as many measles outbreaks these days, OH I KNOW MASS VACCINATION, THE THING THAT OTHER PEOPLE DO TO THEIR CHILDREN)

Obviously do what you want for your own child, but don't dress it up as "getting the disease is not a real risk these days" or downplay the fact that the only reason why you might possibly avoid the disease is because nearly everyone else is either naturally immune or vaccinated.

And nobody is claiming being vaccinated guarantees you won't get the illness. Or indeed that you'll always get life long immunity from having the disease - whooping cough is one where even natural immunity wears off, and I know a couple of people who've had chicken pox twice.

KatharinaRosalie · 11/03/2016 15:21

When too many people decide that as others are vaccinated, they don't have to bother, as the risk of catching the disease is low - the risk won't remain so low for much longer.

Alasalas2 · 11/03/2016 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GreatFuckability · 11/03/2016 15:32

I'm in Swansea. Anecdotally (and I'm aware this is not scientific data, just my own personal experience), the people I know who got measles were all vaccinated. My own un-vaccinated children were fine. I don't know anyone who was hospitalised. Make of that what you will.

leedy · 11/03/2016 15:34

And I got measles as an unvaccinated child in the 70s. The plural of anecdote is not data....

leedy · 11/03/2016 15:36

"I have yet to see anyone list the side effects for each vaccine and the odds of getting them.
This I would be interested in seeing."

Through the magic of Google, voila! (these are US figures but most of the vaccines are the same as used this side of the pond): www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

(obviously if you were sufficiently paranoid you would say that THEY are lying about the risk of ill-effects, but...)

sugar21 · 11/03/2016 15:43

This is interesting
www.ovg.ox.ac.uk/measles

GreatFuckability · 11/03/2016 15:58

I clearly stated it wasn't data leedy.

sugar21 · 11/03/2016 16:01

www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/888/page/66389

shinynewusername · 11/03/2016 16:10

GPs who make bonuses from vaccines are not unbiased either then

GPs are totally biased. By actually having seen the effects of the diseases you can vaccinate against.

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2016 16:10

"I clearly stated it wasn't data, leedy" So why did you quote it?

sugar21 · 11/03/2016 16:17

It's my understanding that GP practices are run as a business where salaried Drs and Ptnr Drs are working. Surely if any
" bonuses" are given for vaccinations the money would be fed back into the business.

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 16:19

GPs are totally biased. By actually having seen the effects of the diseases you can vaccinate against.*

and you think the well known GPs I was referring to earlier who have gone into private practice (though one is US so maybe always was, not sure how it works over there) won't have seen the effects??? During their careers?

GreatFuckability · 11/03/2016 16:24

Bertrand I was just sharing my experience. No agenda here. As I said earlier, I'm not anti-vaccines, I just see both sides of it.

shinynewusername · 11/03/2016 16:27

the people I know who got measles were all vaccinated

Sigh.

No vaccine is 100% effective.
Most people are vaccinated.
It is inevitable that most people who get measles (for example) will have been vaccinated because the group of people who are vaccinated is much much bigger than the people who are not.

MMR is about 98% effective against measles.
So if you take 100 vaccinated people and expose them to measles, 98 will be safe from it. The remaining 2 will probably catch it.

If you take 100 people who aren't vaccinated and expose them to measles, on average 90 of them will catch it (90% of unvaccinated people in a household with measles catch it).

So vaccination has saved 88 people from catching measles. 10 were lucky and avoided it even though they weren't vaccinated. 2 were unlucky and caught it despite the vaccine.

I'd say that the odds favoured vaccination, wouldn't you?

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2016 16:27

"and you think the well known GPs I was referring to earlier who have gone into private practice (though one is US so maybe always was, not sure how it works over there) won't have seen the effects"

I'm sure they have. That didn't stop them cashing in on people's fears.

Mousefinkle · 11/03/2016 16:27

YouTube has a lot to answer for. Naive gullible bastards that will believe anything watch these conspiracy videos and latch onto it all. My best friend is one of them, sadly. He's always been the creative arty type rather than a realistic intellect iykwim and he believes all the bullshit on there. The Queen has only lived so long because she sucks the blood from young children apparently Hmm. And yes, vaccinations are full of heavy metals which poison us for life...

Personally for me it came down to "could I forgive myself if one of my children got a disease I could have prevented and died or became disabled as a result?" Answer was obviously no so they're all fully vaccinated. I did turn down the TB jab as a teenager. They wanted to give me it on account of my paternal grandfather being French. It was only given to those with grandparents or parents born abroad when I was at school. I didn't see the point so didn't bother. Won't bother with a flu jab either.