Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why would someone say this about vaccines? Is it odd?

586 replies

PuzzlingPanda · 09/03/2016 19:59

Was in a health food shop today and mentioned an ongoing issue I'm having with one of my do.

The man mentioned he thought the biggest thing going wrong with our children was all the vaccines they receive. He said they full of nasties, designed to make people ill.

It could be put down to a man having a pointless rant but why would he say this? Is there any sort of truth in it?

Not the first time I've heard negative things about vaccines.

Now I'm worried about it.

OP posts:
pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 10:16

Why is it always only the illnesses and vaccines on the schedule of whichever country that extreme pro-vaxxers focus on? There seems to be a "you should get what the government tell you" attitude more than a concern for safety. I know someone who when MenB came out was adamant it was not anything but a money making scam of private clinics and totally unecessary. It wasn't uncommon to be asked why I was giving a jab not on the schedule and for me to back up my decision as though it was stupid right until it was put on the childhood schedule. Whereas the so called "anti" I would call them "somewhat cautious" ones were among the first to vaccinate their DC - I think it's because they were far more aware of the risks these illnesses pose rather than ignorant to them

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 11/03/2016 10:21

I wouldn't say those links back up the claim that "inevitably the result is that parents believe incoherent, idiotic, woo-woo rubbish."

Firstly in those studies, most children received at least some vaccines, with varicella being the most commonly refused (that's chicken pox - which isn't vaccinated against in the UK as the JCVI believes that it's not worth it. Is the JCVI taken in by "incoherent, idiotic, woo-woo rubbish"?).

The pediatrics paper concludes: "Parents who exhibit doubts about immunizations are not all the same. This research suggests encouraging children's health care providers to solicit questions about vaccines, to establish a trusting relationship, and to provide appropriate educational materials to parents."
So not forcibly vaccinating then.

Fro the JAMA 2004 paper:
"Most respondents (>90%) in all groups believed vaccinations are important. In each case-control group, there was no significant difference between the percentage of case and control parents expressing general vaccine safety (range, 53.5%-64.1%). However, case parents were more likely to have asked that their child not be vaccinated for reasons other than illness (range, 10.2%-13.7% vs range, 2.9%-5.3%, respectively) and to believe their children received too many vaccinations (range, 3.4%-7.6% vs range, 0.8%-1.0%, respectively)."

Sounds like most parents had some level of concern about vaccines, it's just that some were more likely to act on it than others. Also the belief that children receive too many vaccinations - or at least that they receive too many at once does have a foundation in science as discussed up-thread.

sugar21 · 11/03/2016 10:23

pigeon that someone is mad. Im just going to to Daisy's grave to change the flowers, perhaps that someone would like to see it

bumbleymummy · 11/03/2016 10:25

Bertie, that natural decline is currently happening with MenB. There are far fewer cases now than there were 10 years ago. It was one of the factors that was considered by the JCVI when it was making its decision about whether or not it was cost effective to introduce the vaccine. MenB cases have been decreasing but MenW have been increasing in recent years.

hollinhurst84 · 11/03/2016 10:35

Can you have the MMR as an adult? I'm immune to rubella but haven't been vaccinated against mumps or measles due to severe egg allergy when younger ( doctor advised against it)
Am 32 now

sugar21 · 11/03/2016 10:39

www.meningitis.org/facts

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 10:44

Sugar - that someone is bizzarre. Her youngest has had the menB now because "she's had all her jabs" and I know by her age she fits into being given it on the schedule. Her oldest children have not - because she thinks they don't need it or they'd have been given it when they had their jabs. Confused she'll even tell you her doctor said its not necessary for older children...

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 10:45

I think so hollin. Think there might even be an egg free brand now...

bumbleymummy · 11/03/2016 10:48

pigeon, the incidence of MenB is much lower in older children. I'm not sure how old her children are but if they're in one of the lower risk age groups it is very likely that the doctor said that it wasn't necessary for them.

sugar21 · 11/03/2016 10:48

Silly woman

bumbleymummy · 11/03/2016 10:49

hollin, yes you can. There is a single measles vaccine that is egg free. You could get your immunity checked first - you may be immune to mumps already. Around 1/3 cases are asymptomatic.

hollinhurst84 · 11/03/2016 10:53

Ah fab, I'll ask my GP. I'm immunosuppressed with neutropenia so could do with it
I'm not allergic to egg now

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 10:54

I know bumbley - and it's true they're at lower risk. And the doctor wasn't wrong in saying it necessarily. But they wouldn't have said it if it was in the schedule for the older kids is my point really.

I'm sure if she asked if it was necessary to vaccinate her smallest child against mumps - the doctor would have told her it was. That's not strictly true though. Her young child is unlikely to die if she catches mumps. Her older children could quite possibly die from MenB (IF) they caught it.

shinynewusername · 11/03/2016 10:56

How many doctors do you actually know? I know several who will privately admit that the current vaccination regime has tilted far too far in the wrong direction, risk-benefit wise, but they say they would never say it in public as their career would be destroyed

Bollocks. I am a doctor, I know hundreds of doctors - every single one has had their kids vaccinated and many have paid for additional vaccines like chickenpox.

Doctors do sometimes debate the cost: benefits of giving vaccines to a particular group, e.g. the right age cut off for HPV. But this is totally different from disputing the value of the vaccine itself.

bumbleymummy · 11/03/2016 10:58

Ah, I see what you mean.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 11/03/2016 11:04

pigeonpoo I know where you're coming from. I've found that Drs feel the need to defend the schedule (and I think they receive training in common questions etc) and so will tell you about the evidence that fits in with that.

This reminds me of the CBeebies episode with Dr Ranj where he's explaining the MMR to the puppet and tells it that it's to protect him against three very nasty diseases - I was thinking, "well actually it's one nasty disease and two that probably won't do you much harm, but you might pass on to others..". The public perception that it's all for the benefit of the child seems to be strongly promoted to get you to adhere to the schedule.

hollinhurst84 · 11/03/2016 11:10

Thanks to those who replied, the nurse from my surgery is ringing me on Monday to chat to me. Reception seemed a little confused as to why I wanted them for me!

FankEweVeryMuch · 11/03/2016 11:12

You absolutely can get adult MMR. My rubella immunity had worn off by the time I was 25. I found out when they do the rubella immunity tests when you are pregnant. My midwife gave me the MMR when my son was a day old.

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 11:13

Shiny - I too know at least 3 GPs who have concerns over the current schedule. Granted I'm more likely to know them because of having had concerns and seeking out people to validate those concerns at a point in my life.

But I'm just one person. So if I know 3 I don't think it can be bollocks that there are quite a few....

There are at least 2 very well known doctors who have publicly stated concerns. Both practice privately I think now.

hollinhurst84 · 11/03/2016 11:14

Yep my rubella got checked for my job so I know that's fine and I had it individually
Had tetanus jab recently which has diptheria and polio so that's sorted
Just measles and mumps to cover now

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 11:19

You may need to pay for it privately hollin though you might get a nice surgery.

I missed vaccinating DS for something I refused and later changed my mind about and decided I should - to be told despite him still being very young they won't offer any catch up programme and I need to find it privately if I want it. - which I have done.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 11/03/2016 11:51

I've known a few HCPs, including a GP, who start out defending the current government policy (whether it's on vaccination or weaning or whatever), but after discussing it for a short time (after I've cited literature, or official reports that contradict that view) have admitted unofficially to having some concerns. I've been told more than once that they have to stick to the official line (presumably to avoid confusion) but it did make me wonder what the point of going to see them was if they're reluctant to 'speak freely'.

MoonriseKingdom · 11/03/2016 11:55

hollinhurst I would be careful to discuss this with your GP. You mentioned being immunosuppressed. MMR is a live vaccine and can be contraindicated in some people with immunosuppression eg you wouldn't give it to a child having cancer treatment. Whether it is ok for you to have it will depend on your circumstances and needs discussion with someone who understands your condition.

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2016 11:56

"There are at least 2 very well known doctors who have publicly stated concerns. Both practice privately I think now."

How much do they charge for offering single vaccones?

pigeonpoo · 11/03/2016 12:02

How much do they charge for offering single vaccones?

It's quite easy to find out via their clinic websites...

Swipe left for the next trending thread