Do I withdraw DS financial support? No job and doesn't GAFF.

[crashboombanng]

My son (20) moved into his own place at 16, was kicked out of mainstream education due to violent behaviour to property, yet gained GCSEs.

Since GCSEs he has been to college twice and lasted a combined total of three days as he "didn't like the other people".

He's been on JSA since and slobs at home playing computer all day every day. His flat is a shit tip and he cannot be arsed to get a job, apprenticeship etc.

He's been sanctioned multiple times - the JC found him a job and he was sacked on second day for pissing about.

Me and my DH are supporting him financially, we are on very low income ourselves, and when sanctioned things get really tough.

AIBU to withdraw financial support? How do I "encourage" him to sort his life out? Tips please. He's never had a relationship, has no social life and never goes out.

I was wary of saying it first but completely agree that adhd came straight to mind for me (and will declare my assumption is based on my own experience), especially given many of the phrases you've used about him. It may help for you to get hold of Taking Charge of ADHD, Barkley, or look at a checklist like this

You sound as if we've given the confirmation you needed for drastic change. I think it might be worth one more try and talk to am HCP..you'll find cutting him off far less painful if he discovers a capacity to fend for himself.

Meanwhile, funding him to the extend that you are going without food sounds perilous. Good luck with your journey.

If he is sitting in the dark not eating he won't be on his games console.Stop financial support.

If he is sanctioned then let him do some jobs at yours in return for food but noting else.

If he has no electricity give him a wind up torch (Tesco sell them).

At the moment he has the perfect teenage lifestyle, money for his games, the games console, no chores, no one to tell him when to go to bed.

My Mum bails my brother out every week when he runs out of dole...it's not a lot to some people...about 40 or 50 pounds but to her, that's her "spare" cash. It's what she'd use to save for holidays or buy nice things....he accepts it.

He is 50 years old OP.

If your'e happy to face that in the coming years, carry on. Let him go to a food bank. He must learn to help himself.

You are going to have to go cold turkey because if you give him just a bit he will manipulate and rage until you give more.

I would type out a list of suggestions for places to contact, including doctors and dentists etc and leave him to it. Stop contacting places and advising him to join up. Leave it up to him. The more you try, the less he does. What you WANT is for him to turn round and say "mum, what a fabulous idea, now you put it like that, I can see exactly your point of view. I think what I will do is hot foot it round there straightaway and leave my life of indolence behind! Onwards and upwards!" This will NEVER happen. Listen to auntie Sue. I promise you if you carry on doing what you're doing you will carry on getting what you get.

Rather than saying "we aren't funding you anymore" say "dad and I trust you to make your own money in life now. You've got a great brain and you've got what it takes to be really successful. You can always come to us for advice if you need it". So that rather than it being seen as punitive, it is worded as if you are ready to trust him.

What a horrid situation OP!

It does sound you've put a lot of care and thought into helping your son. In some cases, all usual attempts fail.

Do go to GP for accessing an ASD assessment - even though he has been thru camhs - they don't necessarily pick up issues such as this.

Does he have any friends /girlfriend /boyfriend? I guess what I'm asking - does he have peers that are self supporting?

I agree you need to get his mental health checked, but in the end, he is able bodied & CAN find work, although as he hasn't persevered with any studying, he may not get a wildly inspiring job !
but he can pack boxes, or stack shelves.
& needs to know that:

1. People who study often don't like it, but its a means to an end.
2. Many, if not most people don't like their jobs, nor like the people but yes they need food & money for living. They suck it up
3. Nearly everyone starts with one job & moves on to another in time, when they get the info or opportunity they need.
4. At what point in his life is he going to concede that lying about in his pit playing games is not an option ?
5. Make sure he can't get into your house & steal, or bully the siblings into helping him
6. You are no longer all going to go without to help maintain his indolence.

He can join one of the forces tomorrow

I understand how you are feeling. Could you withdraw financial support and just supply some basic food - stuff to make basic sandwiches, toast. Then he will be hungry for something to eat that he wants ie. a hot meal but you will have left some essentials. With no actual money coming in then he will lose his electricity and heating which may push him in to employment especially as the computer games won't work without power. Do you pay for his flat?

Just to clarify I really do mean basics. Bread, milk, butter maybe.

It's a mess isn't it OP? I've got one just like yours, nocturnal, massive sense of entitlement, gets nasty when you say no, every suggestion we make (college, apprenticeship, job) is met with derision and everyone's a dickhead. He's had a lifetime of his birth father telling him that I'm obsessed with money and I clearly never wanted him in the first place because I'd rather sit behind a desk than be there for him. Years of assessment also like your boy yielded nothing. He's also 20 and we stopped giving him money a long time ago so he started stealing from us. Now he has a girlfriend somehow under his thumb who works two jobs and feeds him while he lies in bed all day. My OH keeps telling me he'll grow out of it but I'm beginning to wonder. I'm sorry I don't have a solution for you, or myself.

It's usual for a 20 year old to be failing so much at adult life. I agree with posters who suggest GP. You/he needs to put together a list of his issues.

Sorry, meant not usual

You and his dad are probably wasting your time trying to help by researching options for him. If you suggest something , that will be reason enough in his mind for automatically refusing to even think about it. Reverse psychology- he has to think of it all by himself. Rather like a toddler in fact.

I think that is so sad how pathetic his life is. I think it is easy to say just cut him off but probably harder to actually do - but keeping funding him isn't helping him either. How do our kids get like this?

This is a tough one, as as infuriating as his laziness and apparent entitlement is, he is also missing some fundamental bits of adult software.
He is failing to join up actions and consequences
He is unable to take responsibility for his own life path
He is unable to make and sustain relationships
He seems fairly low in his ability to empathise with others

While I agree that financing his lifestyle is just enabling his destructive lifestyle, I think withdrawal of financial support needs to be accompanied by a plan to help him get some of these missing bits of software in place. We can't just assume he's going to develop them out of his suffering when he is cold, hungry and sitting in the dark!

Mix56 if he has Asd or on the pathway he can't join the forces. Only 15% of adults with asd have a job. Even a shelf stacking job etc is just not possible.

Seven, yes. Which is why I started with "I agree you need to get his mental health checked". I assume ASD comes under this ?

Asd is not a mental illness.

You also said in the end he is able bodied and can find work. That implies that non physical conditions do not prevent someone from finding employment.

Poor you op. This must be horrible to witness.

I agree with pp - withdraw the financial support - but at the same time, up the emotional, other kind of support.

I think he needs counselling/to see a GP.

Does he want to live like this? I don't know...

All this 'Get him to the GP' 'Get his mental health checked' 'Get him assessed for ASD'. How is this going to work when he is 20-years-old? The OP cannot force him to see a GP, get his mental health checked. If he doesn't want to do it, she is powerless to do it. What she can do is withdraw the financial support.

All this 'Get him to the GP' 'Get his mental health checked' 'Get him assessed for ASD'. How is this going to work when he is 20-years-old?

And that is assuming there are the resources available post-assessment.

It doesn't sound as if he will accept emotional support from his parents.

Seven, I have obviously touched on a delicate subject, & readily confess to not knowing how you get assessed for ASD, but it sounded as though his mother had had a bunch of professionals involved.
He did manage to get his GCSEs, so I supposed he could try to apply himself to some paid activity, even if cutting grass, or picking fruit.

Sorry I wasn't around yesterday, life got in the way.

Spent a great deal of time talking to DH last night, and he read this thread. He thinks DS may have some kind of medical issue, and definitely thinks it should be checked out prior to us removing financial support. That said, DS has just come off sanctions and will be paid soon so there is no reason as it stands for him to need cash.

As DS is technically still registered at our GP, we've made an appointment for him, will take him, and if he refuses to go, for us to attend, we shall go and inform the Doctor what the situation is.

Us funding him whilst he is sanctioned enables his lifestyle, although should not enable him to live in his tip of a flat and not take care of it nor himself. He becomes very aggressive and defensive whenever we raise his gaming and the amount of hours he spends on it (0800-0200) daily.

It's a great idea to give him a list of essential contacts, I've started this.

No, he has no social circle or peer group. We feel this is devastating for him, and his mental health. At 20 I craved friendships and being part of a social network.

Sadly, his view is that he should only do something/anything if he likes and enjoys it. We all know life and work doesn't allow this in everything we do. He also thinks that as long as he gets JSA (and no doubt us bailing him out) as his right to continue current lifestyle. His lifestyle is so incongruent with real life it's hard to find words. I honestly feel he could continue as is for years, he has no reason to alter his behaviour which is why I made this thread, and why things we can influence need to dramatically change around him.

I'm so sorry notgrumpy that you're experiencing the same. I hope this thread gives some ideas. You can PM me if you like.

We've made a list of his issues over four years to take to the GP.

I spoke to a social worker this afternoon. During the worst period of violence towards a sibling, he'd mentioned he wanted to kill them, and went into graphic detail how. I was livid we were never told, and said SW could only apologise (he could tell me because DS was a child etc. he said). So I had a very upset and crying late afternoon/evening.

The doctors appointment is next week. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.