To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

I don't see what this question has to do with gender?

On school trips, as in many other places, people are split by sex, for (mostly) good reasons.

So it is not appropriate for Jenny to be in a dorm with other females as they are male.

However, Jenny does have a condition that means it may also be inappropriate for them to be placed in a dormitory with males.

Therefore, as already happens in their school, Jenny should be granted facilities for their exclusive use, and room alone.

Inertia, Alis - I am assuming you don't know many trans people personally? I know quite a few trans and genderqueer people and to a person they reject the rigidity of socialised gender roles. They are really the most gender-revolutionary people I know - and certainly the least likely people to enforce gender stereotypes. They fully believe that gender is performed and not "natural." Don't forget that Judith Butler is one of the strongest intellectual forces behind the trans-movement.

Inertia.

Really? What a complete lack of awareness of trans issues. My daughter hates pink and sparkles. And as a child was a stereotypical boy - building, cars, dinosaurs etc. But she is MtF trans. It's not about wanting to wear dresses and makeup - she dresses in the standard teenage attire of skinny jeans and a top. Is make up free. But she is female, born in male body.

theycallme

Yes, I do actually. A relative of mine is trans.

reallyjustreally for you and your daughter. That sounds very tough. My very best wishes for her health and happiness.

Well, I wonder if you've asked their view on gender? It's pretty difficult for trans people to argue that someone's sex naturally bestows upon them gendered characteristics, for obvious reasons!

Transgender is a massive fashion craze. These boys should be given freedom to wear dresses and skirts etc without the headfuck of medical intervention, sex change.
Just be a boy in a skirt ffs.

And yet MTT people seem to perform only the most stereotypical "female" gender norms. How odd.

Plastic username

No worries it's a hard subject and very touchy to so many at the end of the day I think we all what's best for our kids and we don't want anyone hurt.

And yet MTT people seem to perform only the most stereotypical "female" gender norms. How odd. - Again, this just does not describe the trans people I know. I'm wondering if your relative is like this and you're presuming that the entire community is? There are women who "perform only the most "stereotypical" female gender norms" yet I hope you'd agree that you can't extrapolate from this information about all women!

I dont accept that a female can be born into a male body (or vice versa)
It simply makes no sense whatsoever.

And no, I would not want girls to be compelled to share a dorm with a male when we have a general acceptance of sex- segregation.
So imo yanbu to want to ask the question about sleeping arrangements, but I accept it might be difficult amd poorly received.

why is this thread still going on.. surely its a non issue

Thanks Puntastic. No needed, but always appreciated. We're incredibly close and now she's accepted as female she's like a different person (no pun intended).

I'm just glad a lot of the posters on this thread aren't our friends / family as clearly everything they're posting is from reading those media reports rather than having any empathy about a person and how they feel.

Pastmy

I'll tell my trans daughter that "All this sex change nonsense... It's unnecessary anguish for everyone." So her suicide attempts pre-hormone therapy were just nonsense. Disgusting!

My relative is FTT so of little relevance to "Jenny".

I know plenty about the community, precious little based on my relative.

Twitter in particular is quite eye opening. Where else can a man say he's a woman and wish to be treated like a woman whilst simulataneously calling the rape and murder of a female "terf", after all? Tumblr is something else again. Real delights, both social media platforms, where this issue is concerned

The difference between two vaginas sharing sexual pleasure or two willies sharing sexual please and a penis and a vagina sharing sexual pleasure...
Babies

Jenny should be accepted as Jenny.
Sounds like she is, by her group of friends and the school.
You are implying that she shouldn't be.
You are also implying that teenagers are all out to rape each other.
Yet you don't want to be 'labelled as transphobic'.

Why is it a question of rape? I wouldn't assume Jenny was a sexual predator but is there not a question of consensual sex occurring?

I don't know that it's sensible for the school to allow Jenny to sleep in with her best friend. Just because they are best friends and of the same gender does not mean that they do not have sexual feelings for each other. 14 is a tricky time for everybody to one extent or other and experimentation is to be expected, which is of less concern with gender conforming gay children as they cannot impregnate each other but this is not the case here. It's not vilifying Jenny (or anybody else), just recognizing the stage of sexual development they are all In.

That isn't to say that Jenny and her friend would want to experiment together but how could you safeguard against it? They are unlikely to confess to their teachers or parents such feelings (if indeed they are wholly aware of them themselves). Surely it's better for the school to give Jenny her own room.

Well, I don't know what you're looking at, but I have to say that I just don't recognise what you're describing. I think that you have to be a bit careful, as there are quite a lot of blogs etc dedicated to "exposing" trans misogyny - and they consist of just collecting the maddest bits of trans rhetoric from around the internet. It's exactly the same thing men's rights people do with feminism - creating a skewed misrepresentation from a collage of real quotes, carefully selected. This is a great article about how the media pushes a certain image of trans people (the same thing as the "stereotypical gender norms" you're talking about) and how it's harmful to the transcommunity overall www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/ray-filar/how-trans-movement-sold-out

My son's best friend is a girl, can they share a dorm on school outings? (Sorry if this has already been answered, too tired to read all answers and will forget in the morning)

At 14 in the UK, surely the young person would at the very most be on puberty blockers--not full-on surgery and hormones.

Fine to share with the girls.

If they prefer alternative accommodation due to personal identity, perhaps a single room would be best, if available.

I would not be OK with putting them in with the boys.

Oh ffs, No one us reading anyone else's posts, they can't be this isn't about rape.
It's about sex based differences, and the average 14 yo's propensity for sensible decision making.
Can no one remember being 14?

I find the hardcore line really uncomfortable on these threads. You can believe gender is a social construct and that there are circumstances where it is inappropriate for a individual with penis to in female only spaces without being an aggressive twat. It's helpful to hear all views, even if you don't agree with them.

theycallme.

I don't look at blogs trying to expose trans rhetoric. Just Twitter accounts held by trans people and so on.

I am all for trans people being protected by law, I am simply not all for the removal of reality. Unlike every other minority group (except the transabled?) transgender people seem to want people to ignore reality and basic biology. They do not want to be open as to what they are. Transwomen are a subset of men, transmen a subset of women. They are still the sex they were born, regardless of how they feel.