To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

There are all sorts of rules within schools which impact children's identities. Whether that's around clothing, shoes, make-up, hair styles, jewellery or tattoos.

The more sensible rules are based around protecting our children around excessive peer group pressure on fashion, overly sexualising them or good old health and safety.

I'm all for challenging non-useful rules that are about stifling their individualism or gender specific (trousers and skirts for instance) but those that protect everyone's safety are important to maintain.

Allowing a child to express its identity in a way that potentially harms others or takes away other's rights is not how our society operates.

Multivac in fairness I don't know you so it's not my place to say how you comply with your genetalia.

I comply with the sex assigned at my birth by adhering to stereotypical crap like going to the female toilets. Perhaps we need to move forward although I am seeing more and more unisex facilities. Particularly to mitigate fathers who are the main are providers.

I believe segregation of sex on a whole is dated but that there should be options for all (i.e unisex facilities)

Peyia

So much I don't understand about your post...complying with genitals being top, but really, I don't claim to have the trans solution. What I do claim though, is that biological women and girls have a right to segregation from biological boys and men. They have a right to be categorised, in law, differently.

I don't intend to prescribe a solution to the problem, that is for trans people to decide. I will support any solution that doesn't abolish the rights of biological women as part of it's conditions.

However, I will continue to fight for the rights of the category to which I belong: biological, female, girls and women.

There was this article in the (sorry) DM last month - at an all-girls school (don't think it's boarding though)

My experience is that there is always an adult chaperone in these rooms and bathroom facilities are separate anyway. I don't see the issue but if many on this thread do then what do you suggest?

There are school policies I've seen online that have taken a organic approach to some decisions (mainly visits) but ultimately the trans pupil would have their own room.

For those that disagree with this, would it be an idea to write to your governors? Then change is more likely to happen how you want. At the moment I glean that consent fall on the individuals so can only assume that's been acceptable as there are policies that allude to this.

I too think safe unisex facilities that offer protection for everyone is the best way forward.

We do however to be very careful about design, and in particular be sensitive to other minority groups where sex segregation is an important part of their culture. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult it may be for many Muslim women to share medical facilities or changing rooms with biological men or what it may mean in restricting their lives.
For many older people the privacy offered by segregated facilities should also not be overlooked.

I comply with the genitals I was born with as follows:

I have periods
I have sex, whereby someone with a penis uses it in conjunction with my vagina.
I have carried and given birth to 2 children.
I am at risk of illness or disease directly linked to owning these genitals.
I am not at risk of illness or disease directly linked to owning male genitalia.

Other than that, my genitals do not dictate who I am.
Ergo, I am in individual in possession of female genitals. This has no bearing on my hobbies, interests, work or the clothes I wear.

I want to have spaces where only others with the same genitals as me are allowed.
I do not want to share these spaces with penis owners because I value my own privacy and dignity in shared spaces.

Hairy did you want me to elaborate. Perhaps genetalia was incorrect and I should have just said sex or lady stick as many don't have an issue with that.

I want my rights just as much as you and Joe Bloggs. My advocation of 'Jenny' is not at the detriment of others. I'd hate for that to be confused. I did say our society could intergrate better by utilising unisex provision.

I guess I'm just saddened there appears to be 'no place' for some and feel we all have a responsibility to be accepting and that's not me saying at the detriment of others.

Peyia
We don't 'comply' with our bodies, we just inhabit them, with varying degrees of satisfaction. People who are trans aren't made to comply with their genitals, what a weird way to think about it!
You ask where the evidence is that transgenderism is a mental health issue - there is no proof that it isnt and as other issues of body dismorphia and delusional thinking are considered mental health issues, I have no idea why believing you are the opposite sex to the one you are wouldn't be a mental health issue.
Please note I'm not being pejorative here - mental health issues can be treated, and that May include surgery. But the existence of a psychological cause for being trans is unanswered.

Governors are good but in new academies they are sometimes no more than a glorified PTA.

Unisex provision?
Do you mean unisex sleeping accommodation on school trips? I don't know about you but I would have been horrified to have been made to share with a male regardless of how many teachers were sharing the room.
Unisex loos? I'm female and I need the 'stereotypical crap' you dismiss such as lockable cubicles and sanitary bins. I don't want to see males peeing in a urinal when I enter the loo. I want a women only toilet to pee in.
By all means provide unisex facilities for those who wish it, but don't remove single sex facilities. And I simply cannot see any way in which we could do away with segregated sleeping areas for school trips.

I'm on this thread already under a different name, but have name changed for this one post as it is about a real little girl (primary age) that I know of who is now living as a boy, and I don't want it to be linked to anything else or identifiable.

Little girl, mid primary age, really really upset (far more than is usual) at being a girl.
She wanted to have short hair, wear boys clothes and have a boys name.
This affected her daily life and happiness so much that after lots of input from GP etc she has now 'transitioned'.

Now as a little boy with a new name, boys clothes, short hair, he is happy and seems to be getting on ok.

This upsets me no end, because why did he need to 'become a boy'?
Why couldn't he just be a little girl with short hair who wore trousers and did 'boy stuff'?Even a name change if desired that badly.
But why say he's a boy at all, and not just a girl who is an individual?

We are moving backwards at an alarming rate, making likes and dislikes the defining part of gender instead of just seeing them as part of our individuality.

What a fucked up world it is where a primary aged person feels so strongly that they have to change their sex/gender because they don't align with the narrow gender rules forced upon them from birth.

Vince I mentioned that the use of genetalia was incorrect. I used that word in frustration as I am reading some views that suggest they define people by that alone. Sorry if that offended anyone.

I also wasn't implying that single sex facilities be removed but unisex be added. And yes if there are a group of teens that want to share then no problem, again not taking away the rights of others but including those that don't have a problem with it.

Again what about a hermaphrodite that wishes to identify as neither male or female. Do they have to choose? I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative but intrigued how they would be treated.

silverbirch

one doesn't need to be older, or Moslem, or have a special culture or be a minority group for us to be especially sensitive to their needs to not share with men. No special case need be made.

It's enough that a woman - any woman - may refuse to share with a man or a TW.

It really is OK to defend the rights of women for no other reason than women have rights.

I have repeatedly said only with the consent with parents. This was my thinking but it's interesting that some current school policies may consider this.

We of course will agree to disagree as my point is being misunderstood and I'm not here to be antagonistic or offend anyone. I do accept the valid points made by you and some that a woman should be in a space without males.

My frustration is the apparent disregard in some posters PoV when discussing an individual and the emotional/mental well being.

*of parents.

Peyia- intersex people (not hermaphrodites) usually are of one sex with ambiguous genitalia - chromosomal testing can help us to understand. If a person has ambiguous chromosomes (xxy) and wishes to be viewed as neither fully male nor female that would be their right. They wouldn't be 'identifying' as neither however, they would actually be neither. Or be both, however you want to look at it.

But there are policies online currently advocating this so what shall we do about it if it's unacceptable to the majority (on this thread anyway) that consent and choice can not be made by a parent and child.

I've made suggestions on how to mitigate scenario's you mention of John and Peter but the thread is fast pacing and it's probably been overlooked. Or maybe it's a crap solution but it's a something that includes those individuals and in a society where everyone bangs on about inclusiveness I wonder what fall outs there would be by excluding a trans person who wishes to share a dorm with friends and vice versa, the original OP. Again I'm not saying this should be policy but based on a case by case basis.

Thanks for explaining Vince. I didn't appreciate that the word hermaphrodite was not acceptable either.