To think there is very little benefit in earning more than 50k

[ReallyTired]

Loss of child benefit and now reduction in pension tax relief makes hardly worth bursting a gut to earn over 50k. People who earn just over 50k are generally the work horses in skilled jobs that ecomony needs to grow. Given that such people will be saddled with high student loans in the future, what will senior teachers, doctors gain from all their hard work?

"Many private school pupils affect a gravelly drawl which makes their speaking voice unpleasant to listen to...."

You know any privately educated children or indeed adults? Or are you just making stupid remarks out of jealousy? Most private school kids I have met have a similar accent to the area they grow up it. It's just that they speak clearly. If they sounded dreadful no one would listen to them as adults. People who sound dreadful lack charisma.

Singing in a choir has great benefits for confidence, posture and the ablity to speak clearly. If you don't your child to join your local church choir then the many counties also have a music service. Our local music service has eight year olds singing non religious music. There is plenty of beautiful music out there.

There are some great state schools, but getting your child into one can be a challenge.

Stupid remarks out of jealousy

I expect that was in reply to your stupid remark born out of snobbery where you asserted that "state school kids speak with a nasal twang that makes their speaking voice unpleasant"

No, getting your child into a 'great state school' is not 'a challenge' - it is down to whether you are lucky that your local comp is a good one.

Most parents have to use the school that is most local to them.

My dd voice has changed a lot since she started private school, but as above some of it is to do with singing.
She is more confident, but has always been able to communicate well.
Her friends and family joke with her that she has caught posh because she is losing her broad accent.
She sounds posh when saying a posh name like Tarquin (who isn't posh at all and called this as comes from Finland) apparently.

If you have been arsed to quote the whole of the sentence, then you would have seen the word "SOME".

If you learnt about voice training you would realise that voice production is not just what happens in the vocal chords. Children of all social classes can be taught effective breathing/ posture when speaking/ singing. Its not the reserve of the privately educated. Unfortunately many state schools do not see it as a priority. If your voice only resonates in your nasal cavity it sound different to resonating from the diagraphm/ chest.

Why should you expect a state school child to know how to use their voice effectively in a public speaking situation unless they have been taught? Children who have not done speech and drama are less likely to speak with a nasal voice. Lots of private schools do LAMDA exams to help children perfect their speaking and listening skills. Surely it's a positive that anyone can develop outstanding communication skills with the right training.

Id love to earn close to £50k! I guess there is a fine line with taxes etc when going over a threshold

I was state educated, I have a very commanding voice, can project well and not shout.

Have regularly briefed groups of people ranging from a room to a theatre.

I was never 'trained' to do this.

You really are a snob.

it is down to whether you are lucky that your local comp is a good one.

and also lets not forget down to privilege too - can you afford a house in the catchment of the "right" school, We have three pretty decent state secondaries within walking distance and a whole raft of decent primaries.

The average house price here is £775,000. The average price for a two bed terraced house is £765k and a one bed flat averages over £500k.

Privilege extends into state education too.

Me too Bunny and when you add that I grew up in Llanelli you'll know how much of a challenge that was!

You'd have to be a genius to work out whether a pupil was privately or state educated around here Really

Perhaps some children need to go to private school in order to give them extra tuition in clear thinking, logic, and coherence in argumentation since they have a deficit of this from their parents.

Lol Kew!
I struggled to understand my in-laws at first because they spoke so fast!!

I'm all over it now though.

My mum was the daughter of a school janitor and a cleaner with a scholarship to a (then) grant mainatined private school. She caught posh and sounded it at school and sounded "council" at home.

It wasn't a happy experience for her and private schoolng was not the amazing stepping stones to greater things of which you speak because of the amazing advantages they bring. In reality she wasn't one of the gang and benefitted very little (albeit a bit).

I thought the days of "they speak differnetly so they;re not one of us" had long gone but it seems not

Luckily for me I can pass quite convincingly until I start singing Sosban fach.

You just have to listen faster Bunny

I know!
It didn't help that I'm from Scotland - they had a job with understanding me too.

I think when you move around your accent gets the edges knocked off it a bit too (but it comes back full force when you go back home!).

" Or are you just making stupid remarks out of jealousy?

No I think that was in response to your own terrible remark regarding state school pupils nasal voices, your failure to realise this really shows that you are lacking in either irony or intellect. The fact that you then sought to correct someone by saying they hadn't noticed your "some" when you failed to mention their "many"? Laughable.

Again with the "envy" argument too, I told you its flawed and it doesn't stand up as a good point, stop using it!

I'd agree that getting into a good state school in lots of areas can be down to privilege too! House prices can go up higher as much as 20% in order to be in the catchment for an outstanding school. But I never said that privilege was solely a private school thing. I tell my children they are really privileged to have grown up in zone 2 and have a home to come back to here if they want to do internships/work ex etc, as many others don't.

You keep stating charisma as an important factor, which comes with the social conditioning you bought your child, maybe if we had a more meritocratic society and not one based on inequality of opportunity (which means that we therefore holding things like charisma in higher regard than ability) the country wouldn't have been so messed up in the financial crisis eh?

Strangely for someone who regards charisma as such a highly important thing you fail to show any in your posts, fail to endear yourself or make proper coherent arguments, just picking and choosing which bits you want to address.

It beggars belief that your poor arguments are still going, even your attempt to prove there were more state educated millionaires ( when you've actually used data) was terrifically easy to shoot down.

Maybe its the privilege you have received, you know you can't be wrong so keep on twisting and turning until someone lets you have your way.

Jesus, Really, or should I say 'Margo'?
You are a terrible snob.

I'd use another word, but they'd delete the post.

Oh, I don't know. What Richard Branson's deprived upbringing and the hilarious high horse comments about accents, I think the OP is a clever and amusing impersonation of a low wattage bulb. Well done OP, you nearly had us fooled!

We don't get very far in life by being nasty to each other. The ability to make other people feel good, to charm them etc - I see those as much useful skills as my accent or exam grades. Manners maketh the man etc

Accents are interesting. I just came off a business call with someone who are what you might call old fashioned posh - you don't hear that so often these days. However with out doubt for a good few jobs an ability to speak at least reasonably like those around you can make a difference in getting hired. It is one reason plenty of employers have a telephone interview first.

Charisma and indeed making the person you're with feel they are brilliant, definitely matters and it is not something you only get at state schools. It is that emotional intelligence and ability to manipulate pull strings make the customer like and want you that is hugely useful in life.

lurked has glossed my post exactly as I would have - thank you!

Really is seems a tad ironic that you're criticising me for that post when you said the same about state school pupils (most, many, some, whatever)!

Deo, plenty of people have charm its not an exclusive thing, but the "soft skills" are often taught in private education, as they have the time and the resources to do this.

The whole point of the MY point was that others on this thread make dispariging remarks about lower earners and their effort which I find unquestionably blinkered and patronising.

You yourself have adhered to the manta I've mentioned above, and yet none of you have been able to challenge the counter argument effectively.

Anyway, Reallytired's posts are becoming increasingly bizarre and actually the "nasty" responses are mainly to pull her up on it.

Never disparaged lower earners at all. I have just said on the whole hard work pays off and women who choose careers which enable them to pay school fees do their children a huge service.

Challenge which argument? We say something true - like hard work pays but not that that is the only thing you need. Our detractors pretend we had said hard work or private education is the only thing you need to get on. That says all you need to know about the opposite arguments.

Then those happy with state schools are happy and those happy with private schools are so we're all happy - that's great - we have free choices in a Western liberal democracy. All good. Onwards and upwards.

Exactly. Each to their own when it comes to what you are willing to do for your career and income potential. Two things I note, in response to the Op, is that £50k is nearly always a stepping stone. You need to draw a line somewhere and for now it's at £50k. If you don't like it either decline the raise or make it clear you want to be on £55k in the very near future. Also, a salary of £50k can go a lot further in certain parts of the country compared to others. Working in central London with one or more young DC and yes you will be relatively poor. It's somewhat temporary because your DC will eventually go to school.

I certainly do not look down on anyone who is working or who can't work for whatever reason. There is nothing to be ashamed of if you are trying your best. Sometimes it's better to work less hours and care for your DC. Each to their own. The economy doesn't come to a standstill because of any one group of workers. We are all disposable.