To think there is very little benefit in earning more than 50k

[ReallyTired]

Loss of child benefit and now reduction in pension tax relief makes hardly worth bursting a gut to earn over 50k. People who earn just over 50k are generally the work horses in skilled jobs that ecomony needs to grow. Given that such people will be saddled with high student loans in the future, what will senior teachers, doctors gain from all their hard work?

Wales is great and not the deprivation everyone believes.
Even in North Wales that used to be considered as scouse over spill things are changing.
My company has just secured funding for a second music festival that we organised last year.
There are people around with money who are happy to invest in entertainment and leisure activities.

Have any of you extolling the virtues of 'wonderful' Wales ever actually been any further west than Cardiff? It really is very deprived in a lot of areas

I live in Swansea and yes, there are some parts that are really deprived.

Aren't there everywhere though? Good grief, people are talking about London like the streets are literally paved with gold...yes, the shiny bit in the middle, where £80k + jobs abound, and the expensive outer suburbs where the well off commuters live...but there are plenty of parts of London that i'd not live if you paid me, and many sink estates that are (IMO) far more 'deprived' and undesirable than the worst bits of Swansea that I've seen.

...lots of people are perfectly capable of earning 30k somewhere else. It is easier for someone with skills and experience to create their own employment
In Swansea? Where those houses were that you linked to?

The point is though that in Swansea you don't need a couple of £30k jobs to afford a nice house.

Dh and I earn £50k between us and have a lovely house in the most expensive bit of Swansea (The Gower), with the nearest Secondary being one of the best in the UK. I know plenty of people on household incomes of £25k who have a mortgage on a lovely 3 bed in a decent enough area, which costs £130k.

and there is nothing to keep the 'very bright and able', no matter how much they would like to stay
Not everyone wants to move to London you know. It seems a difficult concept for some to grasp but there IS life outside of London, evidenced by the millions of people who don't live there At least some of whom i'd imagine are 'bright and able'

There are pockets of depravation in tower hamlets which is next door to some of the best opportunities for employment in the UK in an industry known for being a meritocracy. There are also pockets elsewhere in the country including the former mining towns you are referring to.

However, you can make opportunities for yourself. There are some fantastic dressage trainers in Pembrokeshire and if buying a horse it would be one of the first areas I would start looking. Yes it's not high culture or perceived to be sophisticated to someone who limits their world to the confines of the M25 but it can be extremely lucrative if you know what you are doing.

I went to school in North Wales. There are opportunities there. They are just very different opportunities to what is available in London and don't include working for someone else. Friends from school have gone on to start profitable businesses. Those business range from a landscaping service (flowers and plants in offices through to custom made garden furniture), a hairdresser, health and safety business and owning a B&B which they have developed into a hotel with spa.

You misunderstand me minecrafty, I have family in Llanelli and I am far from one of the London elite.

I have been on a decent income most of my life, due to leaving home (Scotland) and moving away for work. I had to leave my job due to illness last year, I was on £38k, am now on sickness benefits but am starting a degree course in September in a completely different career direction).

I am just pointing out to the "simply move to Wales it's just wonderful" lot that there is far less opportunity there than the economic powerhouses elsewhere.
It's not because the people are less bright or able, but because they don't have as ready access to the opportunities.

Really Tired - DH grew up in South East and had a relative living in Swansea who he spent his holidays with. He moved here when he was 19 because he wanted to live here...so there's obviously 'something' that pulls people the other way! In DH's case it was the mountains and beaches lol

Never said that London was the only place, I said that there were more economic opportunites here. Lots of nice places all over the country, there are places of economic deprevation in the South East too.

In fact, I have never lived in London in my life and neither would I want to.

I am just pointing out to the "simply move to Wales it's just wonderful" lot that there is far less opportunity there than the economic powerhouses elsewhere

I don't disagree, but what you class as an 'opportunity' is subjective. I know a couple of London high flyers earning £150k and living in £700k flats in London...the epitome of doing well to a lot of people.

Whether you want to be living in a flat in Central London or not though in the question...if that's not desirable to you then having a £150k income is kind of pointless iyswim?

Yes, but I was answering the assertion that it's 'really hard' to live on £50k.

Which it isn't.

As was I Bunny, I think a lot of the time people read an point and then twist it for their own ends so that they can make an argument out of it.

On the private education point I was at an event a couple of weeks ago where ds was with some of his former state primary friends. DS and the other two boys who went independent at eight were suited, glowed with confidence, could work the room and talk to anyone in it. They were, at 21, in command. That's why they will be successful. It isn't wrong it should be so; it's very very wrong that state schools aren't addressing this for the majority of young people.

To the people who say having dcs is only a short part of your working life I'll have dependent DC from age 22 to 57- almost all my working life!

Not everyone (especially those avoiding 2x nursery fees at once) has dcs with 2 yr age gaps.

Also if you are on £49,999 and have 3 let alone 4+ dcs you would need a £5k pay rise to earn 1p more.

But if you had the prospect of future pay rises it would be worth it.

Are you willing to pay more tax so that state schools can have equivilent funding per pupil? Can you arrange it so that all the students in every school in the country will have parents that deem education important and will pass on this ethic to their children? Can you get the government to allow state schools to expel disruptive students?

No you can't.

Your son and his besuited friends have probably worked hard and succeeded very well, but a big part of this is that you bought the opportunities that brought the success. They were not earned on merit, there was no equality of opportunity with others because you paid for their not to be.

I don't know how you still have the energy lurked.
I can't be arsed now!
But then I'm apparently 'naive' (although still haven't been told why! ).

I always have the energy for this battle, although I am about to give up on mumsnet completely, there are some right loonies here!

"An example I think of is Stella McCartney. Yes it helps that her Dad is Paul McCartney but she couldn't maintain her reputation as a highly regarded designer if she wasn't competent. She has taken the time and worked hard to hone her skills. Alexander McQueen came from a humble background and made it to the top too because he was incredibly talented."

So the rich kid from famous parents only had to be competent where as the poor kid had to be incredibly talented.

Also if you are on £49,999 and have 3 let alone 4+ dcs you would need a £5k pay rise to earn 1p more

That's not true. Loss of CB is progressive from £50k to £60k.

I would pay more tax yes and whilst I can't make every parent care,about education, let alone about their children, I do think schools need to be able to define clearer boundaries.. To be able to say life is easier with sensible choices, secure partnerships, qualifications, not following the herd, to say teenage pregnancy is hard and to be avoided, to teach that drugs and illegal highs are the road to ruin, that employment is preferable. My DD did two years in a state secondary. The mantra from the top was "anything goes".

Behaviour was unspeakable. Yes, I'd certainly fund more specialist units but every teacher one speaks to speaks o ly of inclusion with no thought for the majority.

We also didn't entirely buy privilege, selection was entirely based on intellect.

I find it sad that schools seem determined to drag the best down to the lowest common denominator. I don't know why. Is it political because so many teachers seem to take their politics and personal beliefs to work.

I would be utterly deluded to think that my family money, influence and private schooling had nothing to do with my success. Of course it's not just hard work. If only life were that simple.

There is a huge inverted snobbery issue in the UK though that despises progress and success. It's the one think I dislike about being British

But you did buy privilege, selection is based entirely upon intellect but also on the abiity to pay.

"I find it sad that schools seem determined to drag the best down to the lowest common denominator"

I've never come across this in my years and years in teaching, in a range of different schools. All the teachers I know try to get the students to achieve the highest they can, and use everything they have to get the results. Its why there were so many of us at school yesterday, and why I have been marking and planning for most of today (with a bit of MN procrastination). I find it shocking that you would launch such an ad hominem attack on my profession. Your paragraph about schools defining clearer boundaries indicates that you have little to no idea what goes on in the vast state schools, and that you actually buy into the hardwork and the correct choices are all that is needed mantra.

Finally the fact that you praised the confidence of the young men that had been privately educated and said things like "they were in control" isn't exactly praising academic excellence but more the social conditioning you bought them when you paid for their education.

Not merit based at all.

No there is no snobbery about success, it gets celebrated, that whorey old chestnut only comes out when people point out that your: " Hard work and correct choices are the only route to success" mantra is false and that there are lots of other factors involved. Its just the "politics of envy" argument all over again, which as I've said is used by those in whose favour the current status quo works.

Finally the fact that you praised the confidence of the young men that had been privately educated and said things like "they were in control" isn't exactly praising academic excellence but more the social conditioning you bought them when you paid for their education.

Very much agree.

I would be utterly deluded to think that my family money, influence and private schooling had nothing to do with my success.

Well done for acknowledging it!

It's sad how many people are that deluded.

Working regular 60+ hour weeks means you must outsource certain tasks such as home repairs and updates.

Only in the world of MN where everybody has a cleaner. My husband and I have both worked in excess of 60 hours a week, both had to travel, both earned in excess of 50k but managed to pick up our shit, do the ironing, cook tea and wave a paintbrush about. I suspect that there are far fewer people with domestic help than MN would have you believe.

We are high earners - or have been - we recognise that this has made our life easier and was largely down to luck