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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can't believe what Sky News reporter just said re child sex abuse victim of Adam Johnson

405 replies

ofuckit · 02/03/2016 23:01

Did anybody else see this? I'm horrified and a bit disturbed tbh.

The reporter was talking to an ex footballer about the case and said 'Do you think it's hard for people to understand how hard it is to deal with the temptations put in the way of footballers'.... 😟
The ex footballer responded in agreement with the reporter, saying how oh yes it's very hard for them, etc....

So we can assume from this that these men see children as 'temptations put in their way'?

i feel sick 😞

OP posts:
vindscreenviper · 06/03/2016 17:18

There are people who will never believe this girl was a victim, irrespective of whether she sues or not. Even if it emerged that she refused money to change her evidence some deluded people will still believe she is responsible rather than the adult that groomed her.

AyeAmarok · 06/03/2016 17:22

If she wants to make a civil financial claim against Johnson she can. But that will be much more involved and time-consuming. As it should be. We can't just award people money, particularly when he has a wife and child to support.

Er, what? He has a wife and child to support? First of all, I think they'll be OK with the millions he already has.

Secondly, I imagine it won't be too much more involved and time consuming as there is already a guilty verdict with a higher burden of proof, and there is a natural assumption that the victim will have had psychological trauma as a result of it.

Thirdly, she could probably bring the claim against the club rather than him, she has am option of either or both probably.

A civil claim wouldn't necessarily have to go through court again.

Stop trying to implythat a civil claim in some way something she shouldn't do, it makes you sound as bad as all the child-sex-abuser sympathisers who say she only did it for the money. I don't know if that is your intention, but that's how it comes across and I think you need to be aware of that.

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 06/03/2016 17:28

And, a (minor) fourth, he was never married to the mother of his child and she has dumped him.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 17:48

Actually a civil claim is likely to be far easier - there's a lower burden of proof, and given the conviction he'd be strongly advised to settle rather than go to court.

And the existence of his girlfriend and child would be irrelevant to a civil claim.

I don't know whether his victim wishes to pursue a claim or not. I think she has evrey right to do so, and be compensated for the impact on her life, but it's none of my business. I certainly wouldn't judge her either way.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 17:50

Yet for sexual crimes, it somehow is perceived as different by much of society.

Yes and no barefoot. I'm not disputing for one second that many people have a problem with women claiming monetary restitution for sexual crimes against them. They are wrong. I haven't said anything else.

Many people also have a problem with people claiming 'compo' for all sorts of things. You see it everywhere - not least on here.

I've argued on past MN threads that people are entitled to claim restitution for an accident or negligence but have had to step away because the threads usually become infested by people spouting: 'compo culture!', 'ambulance chasers!', 'my arm was torn off in an encounter with a rusty climbing frame in 1975 and my mum stuck a plaster on and gave me a clip round the ear for being cheeky to the park keeper!'

They are also wrong and idiotic. They are the sort of people who add online comments or tweet The Wright Stuff and Sky.

People should claim compensation – yes, even against our beloved NHS – for in intentional or unintentional acts which result in life changing circumstances. I also agree that there should be punitive damages in some cases to make sure the point is driven home.

I have not said anything else.

I think the resentment at ‘Compo Culture’ is driven by envy that someone, somewhere is getting something that they aren't - like suffering a life-changing incident is fun if you get enough money. That goes for any kind of compensation, but is compounded when it's a woman who's been sexually assaulted, especially by a conventionally attractive, rich and well-connected young man.

The reason why I said 'no' is because you are okay if you are the right sort of victim of sexual assault. I linked to one of the victims of the rapist Iorworth Hoare. He won a great deal of money on the Lottery while on day release from prison – I know, but let’s put that to one side. She was out of time to make a claim but persisted and was granted special leave. The settlement was undisclosed and she gave it to charity.

It was a slog but she had nothing but support because she was the ‘right’ kind of victim. A ‘respectable’ middle aged woman minding her own business when grabbed by an evil stranger – from a park in daylight IIRCC.

But someone like Johnson’s victim – and we all know her case is far more typical of sexual assault - is going to get them all frothing.

That’s why I prefer people not to go there in even suggesting that the person is motivated by money.

That includes not saying that she has ‘decided’ not to sue. The girl has made a lot of decisions and has many more to make. But the poster didn’t know.

It seems a very fine point, but it’s important to me. Because what happens if she does decide to make a claim? Is she a gold digger? Are all those people who hate her going to say: ‘I told you so?’. We have no right to say what we think she’s going to do.

That is also why I do not want to see a monetary element brought into the prosecution of such serious crimes against a person. Everyone’s life is of equal value. We can talk about the money in a different place.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 17:52

Stop trying to implythat a civil claim in some way something she shouldn't do

I was going to try to answer your points ayeamarok but I got to this and I can't be fucked with you.

I never said this. I do not believe it. You have imagined it.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 18:00

the existence of his girlfriend and child would be irrelevant to a civil claim.

It's not, is it?

I don't care if we made a big bonfire of all his money and he had to live in a shoebox.

But he has responsibilities, most importantly to his daughter and her mother. Or are you suggesting that they don't deserve money too?

Luckily, seeing as his club kept on paying him after his charge, he might have squirrelled a lot by for the various expenses that he has incurred in the past and well into the future.

Good. Because I guess when he gets out of prison he's probably not going to get such another lucrative job.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:08

If paying fair compensation would bankrupt him and cause his dependents hardship, that would be taken into account. But in this case he's a multimillionaire, so that won't happen.

AyeAmarok · 06/03/2016 18:08

Yeah, me and everyone else on this thread limited. Very mature response though Hmm "I can't be fucked with you"?

The bit you left off when you quoted me was that whether you mean it or not, that is how you come across. And all your quips about the "right type of victim" and this is why you say "no", this is a CHILD. If that's not the right type of victim then I don't know what is. And she's going to suffer abuse from the hard-of-thinking frothers whether she claims or not.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:09

Even people with dependents have to pay compensation when ordered by the court. The process is the same for them as for others.

Surely this is obvious?

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:17

You appeared to be saying that (a) a civil claim is harder than a criminal trial (which is not true - the burden of proof is lower), and (b) part of the reason for this is that victims shouldn't be allowed to unfairly deprive a man's dependents of his money.

This is all nonsense. The level of compensation a court will award will be fair and will factor in circumstances, and in this case he's a multimillionaire. If his ex-gf & dd are less well off as a result that is his fault, not his victim's. They won't be left destitute.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 18:18

ayeamorok I can't be responsible for how I come across to you. That's an interesting point though.

This girl came over well to me. But it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks of her. Luckily she came over well to the jurors.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 18:25

You appeared to be saying that (a) a civil claim is harder than a criminal trial (which is not true - the burden of proof is lower)

Where did I say this?

I accept this:

and (b) part of the reason for this is that victims shouldn't be allowed to unfairly deprive a man's dependents of his money.

I was unclear. What I meant was that they have a claim to his money too. That may come behind any other claims on his money, but they are entitled too, aren't they?

Luckily in Johnson's case, there is probably enough money to satisfy everyone who needs to make a claim.

vindscreenviper · 06/03/2016 18:35

Can any legal posters tell me if a victim has to wait for all criminal cases connected to the original one to be concluded before they can start a civil claim for damages?

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:39

They are, but they're not his victim's responsibility and they have no bearing on whether a claim would be successful.

A civil claim could be successful but, due to the losing party being skint, a nominal award of only £1 could be ordered. That decision would be for the court to make (this assumes it went to court rather than being settled).

The success of a claim and the amount are two different things. So yes, his ex-gf and dd genuinely are irrelevant when it comes to whether a civil claim would succeed.

And rightly so.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:39

No they don't have to wait.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:43

In some cases, a criminal trial has failed, or not been able to proceed for some reason (such as the defendant's death), and a civil case has been successful.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:44

You appeared to be saying that (a) a civil claim is harder than a criminal trial (which is not true - the burden of proof is lower)

Where did I say this?

You said "If she wants to make a civil financial claim against Johnson she can. But that will be much more involved and time-consuming."

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:46

If you think a criminal trial process isn't 'involved' for the victim you have clearly never had to testify in one. I have, and I can assure you your statement was bollocks.

AyeAmarok · 06/03/2016 18:52

Plus, even if he'd spend all his money on his QC, or funnelled it away to his girlfriend, she could sue the club, probably.

The victim doesn't need to consider whether or not his girlfriend and baby will suffer financially from her claim.

Nor should she.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:54

No. It is absolutely not her problem.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 18:55

The implication that that is a key consideration is this make me a bit Hmm.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 19:21

You said "If she wants to make a civil financial claim against Johnson she can. But that will be much more involved and time-consuming."

It will be, won't it? WomanWithAltitude She'll have to bring a civil case herself. She'll have to fund it herself or find a no-win no fee lawyer. She will have to find the right person - which is all very daunting, though not insurmountable. I wish her well if that is what she wants to do and will continue to say this.

In a criminal proceedings, the burden of bringing a case rests with the CPS. As a victim, you don't have to choose or fund a legal team. However, there are other burdens - not least the possibility that the CPS may decide not to proceed. And if they do, there is the burden of having to give evidence and face cross examination. I haven't denied this.

If you think a criminal trial process isn't 'involved' for the victim you have clearly never had to testify in one. I have, and I can assure you your statement was bollocks.

Well, snap, then. We both know how difficult it is. So stop making bollocks assumptions about me.

Plus, even if he'd spend all his money on his QC, or funnelled it away to his girlfriend, she could sue the club, probably.

I have no idea who she could sue AyeAmorok. That's because I'm not a lawyer. Are you?

The victim doesn't need to consider whether or not his girlfriend and baby will suffer financially from her claim.Nor should she.

I agree. I cleared up my unclear statement. I pointed out that others also had a legitimate claim on Johnson's money because it appeared to me that people were saying they were of no consequence.

I misunderstood that. You misunderstood me Aye

No. It is absolutely not her problem. I agree WomanWithAltitude

Johnson's victim can make a civil claim if she wants to. I have not denied this. Personally, I'd like to see her do it. But it would be wrong of me or anyone else to speculate on that or put any expectation on her decision either way.

It is nothing to do with me.

However the criminal conviction she - and the CPS - achieved against challenging odds makes me glad.

WomanWithAltitude · 06/03/2016 19:33

Given the fact that there had been a criminal conviction it really won't be. He'd be highly likely to settle rather than contest it in court (so minimum effort needed) and she's probably had lawyers contact her already offering to work with her to do it.

Compared to what she's already done it'd be nothing at all.

limitedperiodonly · 06/03/2016 19:47

I really don't know how many more times I have to say that I am very glad that the despicable Johnson has been convicted of a sex crime against a child; that she was brave and accomplished in her evidence; that she can pursue him for monetary damages if she wants to, but that what happens now isn't anything to do with me or anyone else, and we should not pressure her to fulfill our wishes.

Because that's what Johnson did.