AIBU in thinking that racism is acceptable on Mn but any form sexism is stomped out immediately.

[rosebudyblue]

This is not about Mn HQ but the posters who jump on anyone who sees a racist comment and points it out. Sometimes, if they don't jump on the offended person, they make snide comments about how it's ruining the flow of the thread or starting an argument because everything was going so well. How dare they! Or how people take things so seriously by being easily offended. To me this shows how people are so an aware of racist sentiments that they think their peace is being disrupted. The amount of racist comments in the last two months has been rife.

My understanding is people lack awareness when it's racism related. If a person thinks that it's ok to point out a whole race as this or that in a negative way, How everyone from this country behaves like this and is in a negative way then more likely than not, you are being racist. The most common one I have seen is how people view English people from abroad. This has appeared in the "shower comments" and the "no rinsing dishes" threads and other threads too. People just found it acceptable because what, you can't be racist to white people ?
In the threads referring to black people and racism you tend to find those who dismiss it completely.
Then you have the threads where people are talking about how they have been to a certain country and they stereotype the whole race with the one bad experience they have had by pointing out the characteristics of the people in general in a negative way. use of some racist undertones or innuendos for example in the black women and mental health post.

The worst ones are those that don't even realise they have been racist and when you point out to them they try to be defensive about it. Self editing would be great. Before you write something about a group of people, ask your self if you would say that about a woman, about children or about gay people. If you think that people would find that offensive then it's best to stay clear because it probably is racist.

Also had to register because I logged out and can't remember my password

Sorry register again

Thanks for this thread - you are right. I've seen plenty of examples on mn and many go unchallenged, or the posters challenging them are dismissed or belittled.

This thread actual reminds me of a comment i read in the first Cologne thread where the poster said (not directly to me as I hadn't made any contributions) 'White men sicken me (accurate, next bit paraphrasing), they are only interested in what happen to the women in Cologne as it gives them an opportunity to be racist.

I didn't report it (I have never reported a post here) but when I said I found sweeping generalisations like that quite insulting I was basically told to shut up as a white male I couldn't possibly understand racism and sexism.

Not much I could say to that.

Is this an appropriate thread on which to bring that up, HelpfulChap?

Helpful Chap you should have reported it as stupid sweeping generalisations help no one.

Awadebumbo I'm trying to remember the poster but can't quite get there, I think the poster was called Lanark, perhaps with a number added on. I can't remember exactly.

But anyway the implicit racism on MN is rife - there was a thread in Chat not to long ago in which the OP who was mixed race was talking about looking online for hair-dye for mixed race hair and she came across a very racist post on Goolge, and decided to write about it. MNHQ's response was to delete the link she put and then tell her they wanted to deleted the whole thread. They didn't eventually delete the whole thread but it just goes to show.

In my honest opinion, this website is fantastic for issues regarding parenting and such like but as a black woman your issues don't count here. The majority are not black and therefore you shouldn't expect them to understand the issues you face just because you are black. It doesn't work that way on MN. Take your blackness elsewhere.

If we are discussing feminism or something related then post - your thread will grow - in fact there's a thread right now about feminism in Chat which has really grown despite the fact that the OP has an axe to grind (imo), but racism in your experiences as a black woman do not count here.

I think you're right OP. The golliwog threads are just horrible, as was the recent one about the Oscars. And I think there is a difference. There are clearly misogynists (of both sexes) on this site, but if you look at, say, some of the horrible victim blaming going on on the thread about Adam Johnson, for every victim blaming comment, there will be half a dozen challenging that viewpoint, whereas on a golliwog thread for instance, very few posters challenge the "you're just professionally offended" posts.

Unfortunately Adrenalin it does seem to be the case here. I don't want to seem like I'm on MN bashing thread but there have been so many threads on here about race that I haven't dared to post or threads where there is an ever prevelant undercurrent if white entitlement I've not even bothered to engage because I know what the reaction would be.
The other thing that bothers me is the lack of insight into how the UK treat non whites. The only difference between the UK and US with regards to racism is the UK tend to offshore their racism always have and always will, just ask the people of Diago Garcia

Helpful chat - those threads are some of the most appalling I've read here.

Helpful, that clarifies racism and prejudice for me a little bit. Maybe, it was the way I have understood racism and how you can reduce it (even though Its tempting, to use the word eradicate instead of reduce). Now I will have to read and try to understand prejudice.

To give an example of why I thought the English thing was racism. The race row between Jeremy clarckson and the Irish producer. He was found guilty on the racist slur just recently. That's excluding the punching debacle.

YANBU OP, I have noticed this recently. Its a very casual, subtle racism that really surprises and saddens me. The thing I think I dislike the most is on threads like the Dr with the racist language and the racial appropriation thread, posters had genuine and interesting views that were completely disregarded in favour of point scoring and double talk.

Rosebudyblue I was and a while ago at a thread where a minority of posters actually argued that calling takeaways the "chinkys" and the "Paki shop" is totally acceptable and not meant with malice and then they argued with posters of that ethnicity (as well as other posters) who pointed out that it was offensive that they shouldn't be so sensitive!!?

Also a while back I reported a thread (it got deleted) about someone's BF who was going to the Far East on holiday, which then turned into a slagging off of Asian women as being whores who throw themselves at white male tourists and they are 'stealing our men' type of bullshit!! Oh and no one posted any objections to this either. This thread was late at night and didn't recognise any posters as regulars though so I'm assuming that it was a weird one off!?

When threads like this happen I honestly feel like I've fallen into a black hole and come out the other end in a MN parallel universe, it's not the MN I recognise.

Thatwouldbe I saw that thread too. I had written a post about what went on "causal racism" thread but I ended up posting it somewhere else because I was too tired and I was not concentrating. The reply on that thread was mind boggling. The Chinese woman who started the thread was told she should not find people making fun of her accent racist because people make fun of the Irish accent all the time and they find it funny. The get over it already attitude.

Bonita I understand what you mean.
I always go into those kind of threads with the hope that some kind of meaningful discussion can be had but 9 times out 10 your experiences are ignored or ridiculed or you get posters being goady.
The thing that really gets me down is when what happened on the Cultural appropriation thread there where only 3-4 posters that pulled the user up on it even though there were far more than 3-4 people on the thread at the time. (I do have to say MN HQ were really good and deleted the post I reported)
But when things like that happen and no one but a couple of posters point it out. It feels like someone is screaming abuse in your face whilst a 100 people stand behind you starring at their shoes; especially if you come here frequently and see that 99% of the time if that happens on another thread the majority posters do will pull people up for being goady or in this case out right racist.
It's very isolating and makes you feel like your being snubbed by the MN community for not being the right sort.

Totally.

The get over it already attitude.

Yes, Rose, totally agree with this! Some people can't see past their own privilege.

The cultural appropriation thread I tried for a while but after a bit it was hard to know what to do for the best. Report yes, and I did PM someone because I thought that thread and some of the language on it was repulsive. But sometimes it feels like I'm white-splaining. Then when black posters are explaining their lived experience butting with what I think seems rude. But I don't want the black posters to feel like people are silent because they agree with the racism. Now I feel like I'm saying "poor guilty white me, feel sorry for my angst".

YY to the get over it attitude I'm quite new to Mumsnet and the Dr thread was the first one I read with about race, I normally stick to chat and parenting topics. I was gobsmacked at some of the posts, to the extent that I don't really want to look at anymore threads with a racial or religious tone which make me sad as I like to read these threads to get a better understanding of other's POV.
I'm glad that sex and sexuality are treated with sensitivity but for the life of me don't understand why race and religion cannot be afforded the same respect.

Correction with the Jeremy clarckson case. The BBC payed out before it went to court. One of the case filed was for racial abuse.

YANBU OP. I've often noticed this too and stupidly it disappoints me every time.

whatdoiget

Is this an appropriate thread?

Well its an anecdote regarding something that was said to me on MN regarding racism and sexism in a thread asking about racism and sexism on MN.

Possibly?

It was an anecdote about how you as a white male had something said that generalised white males.
It stuck out in your head as unfair and you thought about reporting it.
It is a bit of a deal to you because you are not used to being generalised about in this way.

This thread is about how covert or casual racism is allowed to slide on MN, and how actual lived experiences of non-white women is minimised or completely denied.

Your being upset that all white men were being marginalised in one sweeping statement is something that non white people and women have to actually live, not just read about.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think this thread is appropriate for you to claim that as a white male you in any way 'get it'.
It's a white man asserting his upset at being misrepresented, and purporting to 'get it'.

I was basically told to shut up as a white male I couldn't possibly understand racism and sexism. Do you think you can? I think you can feel empathetic and maybe sometimes get an insight or two but no, you can understand.

I'm not sure that I'd agree that men don't experience sexism. I think the 'boys don't cry/toughen up/ boys don't like X, they only like Y/man up/ boys will be boys' insidious crap is pretty much dripped onto them from day 1. And although it is not as damaging as the shit women deal with, I think actually it is pretty damaging, hence the large number of emotionally stunted, educationally deprived me out there.

Still not sure this is the thread to be calling for justice and sympathy for the white man, though.