AIBU in thinking that racism is acceptable on Mn but any form sexism is stomped out immediately.

[rosebudyblue]

This is not about Mn HQ but the posters who jump on anyone who sees a racist comment and points it out. Sometimes, if they don't jump on the offended person, they make snide comments about how it's ruining the flow of the thread or starting an argument because everything was going so well. How dare they! Or how people take things so seriously by being easily offended. To me this shows how people are so an aware of racist sentiments that they think their peace is being disrupted. The amount of racist comments in the last two months has been rife.

My understanding is people lack awareness when it's racism related. If a person thinks that it's ok to point out a whole race as this or that in a negative way, How everyone from this country behaves like this and is in a negative way then more likely than not, you are being racist. The most common one I have seen is how people view English people from abroad. This has appeared in the "shower comments" and the "no rinsing dishes" threads and other threads too. People just found it acceptable because what, you can't be racist to white people ?
In the threads referring to black people and racism you tend to find those who dismiss it completely.
Then you have the threads where people are talking about how they have been to a certain country and they stereotype the whole race with the one bad experience they have had by pointing out the characteristics of the people in general in a negative way. use of some racist undertones or innuendos for example in the black women and mental health post.

The worst ones are those that don't even realise they have been racist and when you point out to them they try to be defensive about it. Self editing would be great. Before you write something about a group of people, ask your self if you would say that about a woman, about children or about gay people. If you think that people would find that offensive then it's best to stay clear because it probably is racist.

[kirinm]

I'll caveat my post actually. I suspect the Calais / refugee commenters would argue it's more stereotyping but whatever it is they come across as vile unpleasant people who do absolutely nothing for the reputation of this site.

[amarmai]

i agree with you ,op. There have been a few threads form parents of mixed race cc who were not being dealt with fairly in the school system. The few replies they got tried to minimise and deny and also attacked responses which affirmed and supported the op.

[Atenco]

"social norms and culture differ between countries and commenting on the difference in social norms or culture isn't the same as stereotyping, in my opinion"

No it isn't, unfortunately people make up a lot of this stuff, because it can take a lot of knowledge to know about the social norms or culture of another country or group.

For example there are nearly two billion Muslims in the world of whom a tiny minority live in Saudi Arabia, which is the only country in the world that bans driving for women, however I have seen it oft quoted on mumsnet, that if Muslims were to take over, they would not allow women to drive. Likewise if a rape victim is accused of adultery in Nigeria or there is some other isolated injustice in the wilds of Pakistan, all these are lumped together as the common practice of Muslims.

[AdrenalineFudge]

I agree with you OP, unfortunately.

I've been on the threads that you mention and some of the responses were just astonishing.

[Vixxfacee]

What is the demographic of mumsnet?

Whenever I read threads that have anything to do with race or racism it invariably goes the same way.

The worst ones are the golliwog ones. How can a white person tell a black person that it's just a doll and it's not racist. I can't get my head around that thinking.

[amarmai]

This thread has gone to 4 pages which is not the usual for a thread on racism on mn. The parents whose dcc were suffering racism in schools were lucky to get 4/5 responses-3/4 of which were not supporting the child being hurt. This is an example of 'ignore him/her and s/he will shut up and go away' tactic. Then there is the 'change the topic ' tactic-which is usually immediately and enthusiastically joined by those who recognise and approve of this tactic. It didn't work on this thread because of the many agreements with the op. Next time a parent needs our support and advice re racism, hope we all make the effort to help.

[Awadebumbo]

I long since realised that if I have an issue that effects all women then I can post here. If I have an issue that effects me as a black woman here is not the place to address it as I will get very little support.

[rosebudyblue]

I have read what everyone has said and am glad i was not imagining or over thinking things. Before posting, I contemplated on the decision whether it it was right or not to challenge the view on Mn. On the day I posted, there was a thread I saw and when the comment was pointed out the person didn't see how that could be seen as racist.

On the other hand, here is another recent example about a grandmother fearing for the future of her grandson who has two young siblings that were white. The wording from the beginning her post was wrong on all levels with a lot off stereotyping. At the same time women who had biracial children told her there was nothing to worry about because they have not seen their child experiencing any form of racism so she should not worry. The grandmothers wording was worrying on its own because of her view of the father. That makes you think about what other things will be said out of ear-shot that the little boy will be able to here.
What amazed me with that post was that it contradicted another post weeks before about a woman who said she was getting verbal abuse from both black women and white counterparts for having a biracial child.

When I said English people, I used the names that appeared from the posts. It must be prejudice. I don't think prejudice should be encouraged either because that causes segregation with the belief of them and us.


There have been a few threads form parents of mixed race cc who were not being dealt with fairly in the school system. The few replies they got tried to minimise and deny and also attacked responses which affirmed and supported the op.
The most recent thread I can think of was the mum complaining that her son was getting the flack for racially abusing another child when others did it too. He was caught and the others didn't. The whole thread didn't deal with the racially abused child. They were more concerned with ops child. The racial abuse to them was not the big picture. what the mother cared about was how her child was punished for bulling another child. She never once answered where her child would have got such language or wether she had spoken to him about why they were in trouble. Maybe she did later on in the post, I don't know.

A lot of people would not see that example as a form of racism but to be honest it shows how racism is not a priority. That child who was racially abused will never look at themselves the same way again. They will never feel equal to every one else. It just takes that one moment that this poster didn't give damn about. A lot of people think that for racism to be detrimental to a person you It needs to be constant but I don't think it is. Most black people or those who get racially abused remember the first time they knew they were being racially abused. I tend to call people out when I see these threads but it can be tiring on here.

The people who monitor Mn are great at deleting posts. It may not be straight away sometimes but I was impressed by how quick they dealt with some post with the exception when they sometimes have no night duties.

The examples I have given above is not something you would flag up and shouldn't be. It just shows people ways of thinking and what is priority or how people view racism.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Or you get the "well I don't see it" brigade okay then because you don't see it it means it doesn't exist. This is very infuriating. As women, surely we are aware that men act differently towards you when your BF or DH is there than when you are alone. So I cannot fathom why it is hard to understand that this happens to POC as well.

I saw this first hand when I worked in a shelter. A young (maybe 15 yo) girl of colour, drunk, shouting in the street was taken by a Police Officer and slammed on the hood of his patrol car (I'm in Canada). I'd been talking to her earlier in the evening. I was very concerned about her. All I did was lean forward and say to the cop, "We think she's 15". Very different reaction. Now, could have been the age thing (except he was clearly very young) but I think it was the concerned, white witness.

But if I'd posted it here I think I would have got at least a few, "things are different in the UK" and "he didn't know how old she was and she was drunk". I do think the wider world, and therefore the tiny world of MN, we are very keen not to see racism. Because it's unpleasant and reflects badly on us.

[AdrenalineFudge]

Awadebumbo I agree with you and I have actually posted a similar sentiment before. I did so on a thread in which a poster who was incensed that Kanye West (who I will point out is a twat) was able to use the term 'coloured' but when white people use it they are accused of being racist - the same poster thought racism is of a bygone era so therefore black people should 'be over it'. I was really taken aback that a poster had managed to turn the thoughts and feelings of a black man into a 'white' issue.

I read your posts on a thread about braids - think it was to do with cultural appropriation and there was a poster that seemed determined to get under your skin. Perhaps she wanted to evoke that angry black woman stereotype out of you

[rosebudyblue]

think it was to do with cultural appropriation and there was a poster that seemed determined to get under your skin. Perhaps she wanted to evoke that angry black woman stereotype out of you

On the mental health thread the angry black woman was dismissed by the op and that was why she had studied for her dissertation. Cringe on all levels. guess what? She didn't find any evidence that it existed. Job done.

[rosebudyblue]

Oh god meant to say.

That was what she wrote her dissertation on. "The angry black women"

[AdrenalineFudge]

rosebudyblue I was also on that mental health thread and to all intents and purposes that OP came across as being very 'I did a gap year in Africa, I helped the poor, struggling and confused Africans therefore I cannot be racist because I also did a dissertation on it'.

I'm half wondering if it's not the same author of all those type of threads...

I try to stay away from race discussions on here because it will get nowhere and achieve nothing.

[rosebudyblue]

With the mental health thread if the op wanted to look for evidence, all she had to do was Google and find that a book and a few articles calling Michelle Obama the angry black woman for having control behind the scene at the White House. Or thousand of other articles and books online which states that there is such a way how people look at black women.

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

The only thread I recognise is the one with the boy punished for using a racial insult.

I admit I came on to say I don't believe sexism is stamped on and racism not - but actually, I agree with you.

I am genuinely sorry if I have ever been complicit, I really hope I haven't.

And I really hope this doesn't come across as patronising as that is not my intent at all

[AdrenalineFudge]

And then we enter into a realm of 'white guilt' which is equally unhelpful.

[Awadebumbo]

Adrenalin, I think she was hoping to bring the tone police out for me. I find it startling the amount of cognitive dissonance that goes on here. When a man dismisses and minimises my experiences as a woman it's sexism! but when I do it to non whites it's Ok because ..............reasons

[MoonlightSonataz]

do you have a link to the mental health thread or any of the threads you say were ignorant comments? I have never seen on here but i have not been here very long and i disappear for months then return

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Moonlight
I think people mean this thread. It was grim.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2567481-To-be-gobsmacked-by-this-article?pg=1

[rosebudyblue]

Oh, the most annoying one I have remembered was on the news section about the author David Bradley who had written eulogy for the n-word. What amazed me with that post was the fact that the people posting, I don't think understood the eulogy. The people on the thread thought that it meant it was ok to use the n-word because the author said so. Even the news report on this with the Wright stuff left me shaking my head. If you read the piece he wrote, unless you were up to scratch with black events through history in America and little things that made the news about black lives, especially blacks mater then most of the issues he mentioned would have just not made sense. A lot of it was like that formation video by beyonce. I would say with those two one is visual and the other is written. I never saw the, please use the n word. I do know that he asked when it was dead and questioned "white-splainning " the pc and quilt on the use of the n word.
It just started facts and his thought and about the death of the n word, it wasn't literal. It meant the people. It should have been looked at the same way you would have read a poem.


This is his response to the use of the n word and link to for anyone interested.
DB: [Laughter] Look, there are some white people who have absolutely no problem saying the word, and they are the problem. The people who want to talk about an issue, who want to be able to talk about it in reference to literature or in reference to behavior, are not the people who use it as an epithet. The real question is, am I allowed to use that word as an epithet? There has been this assumption that there is this word that can only be used as an epithet. Well, that’s ridiculous. If you were to announce the title, that’s the context, what else would you call it? The title is “Eulogy for Niggerr_.” You don’t say Joseph Conrad’s [title] “The N-Word of the ‘Narcissus.’” [Laughter] It’s ludicrous. It sounds like a bunch of two-year-olds who need to go potty but don’t want to say it. Can I go number one, number two, N-word. That’s why the piece has “N-word, my A-word.”

My only reason for having not explained on that thread was because I didn't know how to approach it and it was a couple days late. I know that mns had to change the tittle too.

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

Have I said something wrong?

[HelpfulChap]

Rosebudyblue

In reposnse to your question 'so you can't be racist to white people'?

I was told in no uncertain terms on a Calais/Cologne thread that black/EM people could not be racist towards white people but they could be prejudiced.

Hope that clarifies.

[BarbarianMum]

As a white woman I wish I could disagree with your posts OP but sadly I can't. Although I've seen overt racism consistently challenged on here there is a hell of a lot of minimising and a huge amount of covert racism to boot .

[AwadebumboMk2]

I once heard an explanation that I think gives a little insight into how systematic racism works.
"If a man wants to lynch me thats his problem, if he has the power to lynch me it's my problem.