AIBU in thinking that racism is acceptable on Mn but any form sexism is stomped out immediately.

[rosebudyblue]

This is not about Mn HQ but the posters who jump on anyone who sees a racist comment and points it out. Sometimes, if they don't jump on the offended person, they make snide comments about how it's ruining the flow of the thread or starting an argument because everything was going so well. How dare they! Or how people take things so seriously by being easily offended. To me this shows how people are so an aware of racist sentiments that they think their peace is being disrupted. The amount of racist comments in the last two months has been rife.

My understanding is people lack awareness when it's racism related. If a person thinks that it's ok to point out a whole race as this or that in a negative way, How everyone from this country behaves like this and is in a negative way then more likely than not, you are being racist. The most common one I have seen is how people view English people from abroad. This has appeared in the "shower comments" and the "no rinsing dishes" threads and other threads too. People just found it acceptable because what, you can't be racist to white people ?
In the threads referring to black people and racism you tend to find those who dismiss it completely.
Then you have the threads where people are talking about how they have been to a certain country and they stereotype the whole race with the one bad experience they have had by pointing out the characteristics of the people in general in a negative way. use of some racist undertones or innuendos for example in the black women and mental health post.

The worst ones are those that don't even realise they have been racist and when you point out to them they try to be defensive about it. Self editing would be great. Before you write something about a group of people, ask your self if you would say that about a woman, about children or about gay people. If you think that people would find that offensive then it's best to stay clear because it probably is racist.

Oh f....

The one where the woman went to see a consultant and he used a word she didn't like. He continued to use even thought she had said she didn't like it. The nurse agreed with her too. Some Mn thought he was was right in using it until she said something about what he said about her relationship status and having children then every one turned on him.

It is a mistake to think sexism is stomped on...but the racism is far more overt.

YANBU.

May I enlighten everyone that racism is not just about 'race' it is about particular races lacking economic power/opportunities and suffering social exclusion more than other races. 'Racism' and 'sexism' are concepts that try to target the EFFECT of the racist/sexist attitudes - people being disproportionately excluded from jobs or other social opportunities because of those attitudes. It's not just about offending people, it's also about the EFFECT on their actual economic and social lives.

Also, it's about effects on the group as a whole, not just individual people - so if black people are over-represented in prison (more likely to be stop and searched, more likely to be charged with crimes, more likely to be jailed) it's no answer to say 'well, there are white people in prison too' or even worse 'my neighbour went to prison and he's white.' Pretending that there are no social effects and that bad things happen randomly to everybody equally is a way of minimizing racism.

I also agree about the racist threads on here where somebody always comes on saying 'My DH is black and he doesn't mind!' or 'My DH is black and he thinks racist jokes are hilarious!'

I disagree in regards to MN but in general in the world racism is looked over but say anything about sexism, LGBT, religion then everyone is up in arms.

op everything you described is ignorance and it seems based on stereotypes , that isnt racism.

I wish we could have a conversation about this without having a competition about it. There is prejudice on here. Sexism, racism, prejudice against Muslims, disabled people and on and on. The cultural appropriation thread was particularly nasty and yes, racist.

There is also sexism. Black people, disabled people, gay people, women shouldn't be fighting for crumbs and comparing how each of them is treated.

There is racism, there is sexism, they are both here and they both need to be challenged.

Talking about how the English are perceived abroad doesn't even blip my radar. And that as an English person who has lived in several countries, is currently living overseas and has dealt with prejudice against the English. It does not compare in the tiniest way with racism.

YaNBU

There's a huge increase in racism online everywhere just now.

The absolute worst place is the Guardian Facebook page for some reason, always has some responses the KKK would be proud of.

I think we see so much of it everywhere we are starting to see it as "normal"..scary.

LifeofI a huge part of racism is made up of ignorance and stereotypes. Tbh Id have thought that was quite obvious.

The reason a rational discussion can't be had on MN is there is so much denial of racism. I saw a term describing it on here the other day Whitesplaining - relating to white people who want to tell non-whites what is and isn't racism, how they should and shouldn't feel about racism, and reacting is "wrong", and in fact racism doesn't really exist. & if you provide examples it gets straight down to "oh it happens to other nations".

So then what would you say to a person of those other nations? "It happens to black people". On the other hand specific incidences and experiences of black women in relation to racism are dismissed as "sexism that every woman suffers". Well last time I looked, black women are women too - so when we suffer the effects of both racism and sexism we don't need whitesplaining to define what is and isn't racism, in an effort to minimise. Nor do we need the "other nations" thing. We already know they suffer racism too. In what way does that mean we do not?

I don't think so

Its mostly women on this site. & picking up on the black celebs threads, its black celebrity women who are dissed to the point of racism. It is not generally against non-white celebrities of other nations. Reading those threads and denying that would be to purposely ignore the racism and misandry. The black women and mental health thread still sticks in my mind as one of the worse I've seen lately. Whilst there are level-headed posters who will comment with insight, it seems fairly easy for these goady threads to incite others who will agree with what the OP says. That in itself is very telling. They tend to be long threads. But somehow.. they are the posts that "havent been read". Really?

I actually wouldn't expect a mass-understanding of racism. My thing is, I do not want the whitesplaining - to be told what racism is, what it isnt, how I should feel about it, which parts I should shrug off, that it doesn't exist, and that racial prejudice is something that I shouldn't challenge, in an "we are all women together" way ie its sexism but not racism. I feel we are moving back to the days of "you've got a chip on your shoulder" where some feel we only define ourselves by race, and experiences of racism, when really its they who are doing the defining without the will to understand

I agree about the Guardian Facebook page. People are more openly racist online. In RL not so many would be openly racist. Behind the anonymity of a screen though, lies the truth

I completely agree with the OP. My experience of acceptable casual racism is the attitude in this country towards people from East Asia. First, it is perfectly acceptable to blanket call everyone from East Asia as Chinese - makes no difference is they are not from China but rather from Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc - nope, we are Chinese. When I have vocalised my irritation about this, people are quite baffled why I would be upset. Second, there is a strange thing in this country to find the term "Chinese Whispers" or "Chinese Burn" perfectly acceptable. Even in America, that mecca of racial equality, these terms are rare. The game is known as Telephone and the friction burn is known as rug burn. I am going to but my next handbag that the majority of readers of this post will see nothing wrong in those terms.

Sad thing is that I am immune now to my children being called "Hey, Chinese Boy!" or being referred to as the Chinese Boy. I used to fight this and try and explain that my children did not have a drop of ethnic Chinese blood in them, but just gave up. Nobody cares here, and they really don't see that they are being very racist.

I pressed post too soon. I meant to say that I have made complaints of the above sort before on MN and have faced mass shrugging of shoulders and nobody has ever realised that this is a form of racism.

I've noticed racist and sexist remarks on Mumsnet, yesterday a man was called a 'mummy's boy' because he told his mum that his DP had been sexually messaging other men

Yes the offending posters often get jumped on but they shouldn't be saying that kinda shit in the first place.

You are right OP and I feel in all my years on MN it's getting worse. I no longer open threads about black female celebs, Israel/Palestine due to anti-semitism or anything to do with race as I know what it will descend into.

The thing is racism is often seen as a male disease however, like paedophilia, women can be guilty of it to. Do you think in the Deep South when blacks were being lynched that only males were involved/supported it? Do you think that in Nazi Germany only males supported Hitler? We need to realise that females are as equally capable of being a threat. They may be less loud about it but they can still be a threat.

It's not just increasing online either. I was on a bus going through Stamford Hill, an area known for having a large Orthodox Jewish population a few months back. Two middle class white young women boarded and immediately started making fun of the Hasidic Jews walking past. I approached them and told them it was out of order and I was told that they weren't being racist they just hadn't seen this many Jews before as if that was a good excuse. I'm ashamed to admit that I was very surprised that it was that type of person making racist comments, I would've thought they would be more liberal. They didn't seem 'the type'.

I've heard things muttered about Muslims women wearing head scarves too.

I think some in society are quite angry and thus they're looking to take their anger and lack of power out on others. 'Punching down' as it were. It makes them feel better about their own sad lives. It is sadly inevitable when the economy isn't doing so well. It's sad we have not evolved past this.

"what, you can't be racist to white people?"

I think you mostly can't. People from other minorities are about 6% of the UK, they are the ones that suffer the effects of racism.

I think what you're criticising is lazy stereo typing, not racism. There's plenty of lazy stereotyping of all cultures on Mumsnet. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's less so.

Rosebud I saw this thread last night and thought you were brave for starting it.
I agree with your OP, the only place I have seen race discussed in any rational meaningful way was on the feminism board and that was only one thread. I have posted on threads about race, I've been mocked for sharing my experiences, when I have agreed with other posters I have been called a sock puppet both on the thread and in pm. Whenever a non-white person tries to come on here and tell others about how systematic and endemic racism effects their everyday lies the response is normally a plethora of anecdotes about being called a white bitch by an Asian person once.
Its depressing and ultimately futile to try and discuss race on mumsnet.
thisiseverydayracism.tumblr.com/ as I said on the previous thread MN deserves its posting.

I have no insight on the racism stuff, I haven't seen any apart from the odd goader who gets shouted down. But I accept I know little about the subject.

Sexism, I do know about, and you are absolutely wrong in your assertion that sexism is immediately stamped on. I've had multi page arguments about the double moral standard for women's sexual behaviour and the thread is 80% against me. I've reported hateful sexist language such as slag, slut etc but been told they aren't delete worthy.

Try typing some racially hateful words and see how long they stay up.

This is my RL experience too.

MistressDeeCee. I agree with you, there's been some appallingly anti-Muslim remarks made on certain MN threads. But that is free speech for you. I don't think MN HQ should be censoring views it, or you and I don't approve of.

MN has talk guidelines though. .it's not a free for all..or shouldn't be.

If MN make it against the rules to criticise religion then we're all fucked.

I will criticise religion all day long and consider it a base tenet of free speech.