Funeral Carriage Horse killed by car driver... aibu?

[AdriftOnMemoryBliss]

To think the stupid woman should have the fucking book thrown at her?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-35653240

this second article covers it a bit better and has photos, but they've been edited/blurred. they're not graphic, but a couple do show the horse laying in the road as they were taken before it was removed from the scene.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/horrific-aftermath-accident-saw-car-10953991

From what i can gather, the driver overtook the funeral procession and then pulled in hitting the horse so hard it went over the top of its harness mate, and she also smashed the front of the hearse.

The horse had to be put down at the scene.

What on earth is the matter with people that they would so something like this?

Actually limited I won't be killing anyone whilst driving. Because I don't drive. Because I have PTSD after witnessing the consequences of someone's shit driving decision.

I don't know u2. I almost think harming people in a careless way is as bad as deliberately. If you drive aggressively or overtake when it's not safe or knock someone over because you're texting you've made the choice that your time/text message/bad mood is more important than someone else's life. That's not an accident.

And U2's post is the reason that if I was planning to kill someone, I'd accidently do it with a car. Then stand there looking like a bewildered old lady and take my minimum punishment.
Because everyone would understand that everyone makes mistakes. Even lethal ones caused by impatience and stupidity.

U2's post is the one I agree with most on this thread. Good to see some clear-headed compassion in amongst the vengefulness. This woman made a stupid, awful mistake and she is going to have to live with it for the rest of her life. It's possible to recognise that whilst also acknowledging the horror of what she did.

"you've made the choice that your time/text message/bad mood is more important than someone else's life."

Luckily our legal system doesn't agree with you! When people are being careless or reckless they're not thinking "I don't mind if someone dies because I'm in a bad mood". They're not thinking, full stop. That's pretty much what careless means.

I don't know u2. I almost think harming people in a careless way is as bad as deliberately. If you drive aggressively or overtake when it's not safe or knock someone over because you're texting you've made the choice that your time/text message/bad mood is more important than someone else's life. That's not an accident.

Words mean something.. accident means something that happens unintentionally. She didn't intentionally kill the horse so therefore it is an accident. There is no denying she was reckless but she never meant to kill a horse.

What I want to know is, why do people get pleasure from wishing suffering on other humans?

Take these posts:

I hope she goes to prison

She will be a social pariah

I do hope she feels the social consequences in that small community for the rest of her life though.

she's a piece of shit who should be in jail

Frankly I hope there is a damn witch-hunt, I hope she is shamed and terrified and ostracised, and that this haunts her forever.

She deserves to relive this over and over every single day for the rest of her life

Listen to your fucking selves.

You think this makes you any better than this driver? She didn't WANT to kill a horse, but you want her to suffer for ever, you want her life to be destroyed and that makes you better than her how? You are actively wishing harm on someone who made a stupid dangerous driving decision but the difference between you and her is that she didn't wish harm on anyone.

How can you get any pleasure by thinking of her being in jail or going through a witch hunt, being terrified for ever? That to me is a bit sociopathic. The thought of another human suffering for the rest of their lives because of one awful decision they made does not fill me with happiness.

People kill people every day in RTA due to caress driving decisions but thankfully they don't get publicly shamed like this most of the time.

But no worries, a lot of you will get your wish, because she will relive this every day of her life, she is already being shamed and most likely is already terrified. I hope it makes you feel better, but it isn't going to bring the horse back. But hey, as long as she suffers for her careless decision that's all that matters. Her life means fuck all. She deserves it.

And remember one day you might make a fatal driving error due to being distracted or a bit tired or you might even simply register something a bit too late. It might be people wishing you harm, or your adult child, or your parents. And if you ever do make a fatal error I am pretty sure the last thing you will need is complete strangers wishing you a life of misery.

I really think some of you need to think why you take pleasure from others suffering. That isn't really normal or healthy. It's disgusting and vindictive.

Very well said, U2.

"This was an accident. Caused by driver error, yes, but an accident nonetheless. I'm sure the driver is shaken and feeling appropriately miserable having caused it"

But it wasn't an accident, an accident would have been the horse spooking at something and bolting off hitting the woman's car. This was blatant impatient behaviour that resulted in terrible consequences for many people.

I ride on the roads much more than I wish to and I deck both my horse and I in hi-viz though it doesn't seem to make a difference. Yes, drivers will see me earlier, but some still drive like complete idiots, for example the young woman who tried to squeeze past me and my horse and a bollard in the middle of the road rather than either driving round the bollard on the other side of the road or just waiting for me to get through.

I'm lucky that although my horse is young, he's very sensible.

Many people have to ride in the roads due to bridle paths being closed or changed to footpaths. Please, be patient when driving past horses and I really hope the rider thanks you for your care.

catchit

"accident ˈaksɪd(ə)nt
noun

1. an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury"

She didn't intentionally kill the horse so therefore it is an accident.

If a drunk driver kills a person, they didn't intend to kill them, so is it an "accident".

Words mean something. And accident is usually taken to mean that nobody was at fault.

We know that people consider recklessness in behaviour to be morally wrong and deserving of punishment - hence people wanting the reckless woman to suffer to compensate for the harm she caused through her actions.

She chose not to care about other people's safety. That was a choice, not an "accident".

She didn't deliberately hit the horse, but she deliberately put herself and all of the mourners in a position where it was far more likely to happen.

There are accidents that are unavoidable, and accidents that are completely avoidable. This falls into the latter category (although of course no-one thinks she drove into the horse on purpose). Hence presumably the anger.

If my son gets into an argument and hits someone once, and they fall over and die, he will be charged with manslaughter and is very likely to be jailed.
Not so much if he kills someone by careless driving when angry.

Jolie, read up on human error potential, it will explain why this and other accidents happen. Add risk assessment calculation to that, which companies spend big money trying to assess as accurately as possible.

Hindsight is always 20:20; people make errors of judgement that 9 times out of 10 have no consequences because the other causation factors are not present. Then 1 time out of 10, ALL are present at the same time with the expected and disastrous results.

The people spouting on this thread either have been fortunate enough to be in the 9 out of 10 category and failed to remember their own 'near misses', or are just not posting the whole picture as being self-righteous is far more appealing. Either way, humans are fallible and make imperfect decisions.

humans are fallible and make imperfect decisions.

And when those decisions were reckless, and when that recklessness causes harm, as it did here, people expect there to be consequences.

Driving like an asshole is a choice, and not a choice it makes much sense as a society to encourage.

Just as a aside to a PP, the horse was a Friesian, commonly used to pull funeral cortège sad they are jet black.

They are also really expensive!

I also think that most people understand an accident to be of no ones particular fault. In this case it was, for some reason or another, she was in a hurry and didn't check that it was safe & clear to pass.

I have passed a funeral cortège before on a dual carriageway, I made sure I was as slow as I could be without driving alongside or speeding. I hope that it was respectful but I would never consider doing it on a single carriageway.

How do we know that the woman tried to get into the tiny space between the carriage and the horse??? That seems far too ludicrous to even contemplate.

The position of the carriage and car shown in the pictures, could possibly be showing that the horse has spooked slightly, sidestepped, exactly as the car past. In which case it wouldn't necessarily be her fault but a combination of horse spooking at the exact wrong moment and her not having left quite enough room, maybe gone a smidge too fast.

I think until this has gone to trial there isn't anyway for any of us to gave any idea what truely occurred. Until then I think we need to hold back on any witch hunts or wishes of awful things on the woman driving the car.

Oh and before I get flamed I've done horse drawn weddings, with highly experienced horses and the owner who has done horse drawn weddings all his life (and is now very old). I've also been with him when exercising one of his horses singularly in harness (whilst the other one from the pair was lame) and been in an accident with a lorry!!! Thankfully everyone (inc horse) were fine, just a bit shaken. Neither the lorry driver or us were really to blame. It was just awful timings.

no she was driving impatiently. She may not have meant to hurt/kill anything or one but it doesn't change anything.
People have fights and kill people, those still aren't accidents.
I do hope it stays with her, maybe she will think before she does things.
If she is charged it will only be a slap on the wrist, that makes people mad.

limited
Oh yes i said let's banish her, tarnish her and take her house didn't i?
I asked if other countries took police pensions and if she would still be entitled to hers here.
Legitamate question.

She was trying to get in between the carriage and the horses. We know this because some of us know the people involved (if only loosely). Which is why we also know that her initial reason was that the sun got in her eyes and she didn't see them... I was also told, this morning, that she is an ex police officer.

I still don't wish ill on her, she made an horrendous mistake. Instead I will do what the carriage driver has done and sign the petition for a change to to law, I think it was mentioned earlier.

Mark has lost his livelihood, not just his horse. Wil and Twm were his last matched pair. It will take a very long time to train up a new pair of Black Belgians (Friesians).

www.change.org/p/government-law-parliament-i-want-to-make-it-a-legal-requirement-to-legally-have-to-slow-and-pass-a-horse-wide-and-slow-and-abide-our-hand-signals-to-stow-and-slow?recruiter=497778092&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-custom_msg&fb_ref=Default

Any news on how Twm is Blanche? I read he was injured, but no-one has said how badly, i wondered if you knew.

Thanks for that petition link, I have now signed it.

All I have heard is that Twm was slightly hurt. The people I know best there have been unwilling to bother the carriage driver. But he, Mark, seems to be fine. Out collecting pictures and rousting out eye witnesses, facebooking. He has been really measured, apparently, not calling for her to be sent to Coventry or anything.

There has been some naming on fb - there would be wouldn't there? Locals do know who she is, her DH is still a serving officer, apparently. There's much being made of the fact that they were a couple of hundred yards from a dual carriageway... I expect the local pubs will be full of it today.

It will take a very long time to train up a new pair of Black Belgians (Friesians).

It's so sad.
I've done quite a bit of carriage driving. People don't realise that he can't just go out and buy another black horse.

I hope he gets a bloody good payout.

People don't realise that he can't just go out and buy another black horse.

I think they do. The horse that was killed was not a machine and neither is the surviving horse. The carriage driver can't replace it just like that. His business might go under while he waits for a pay out and a suitable replacement that he can train with the survivor.

I feel very sorry for him on a business level and also on a personal level. I'm sure his horse was a beloved pet as well as being a business asset. The surviving partner might be so shocked by this incident that he or she may never be able to be around traffic again. Maybe he won't either.

I hope he was insured and I trust he will be pursuing her insurers to cover his costs. It's going to be an expensive payout. Unfortunately, that's how that aspect of this accident is going to have to be treated.

It was an accident and when she goes to court the level of her contribution to that accident will be taken into account in her punishment. I doubt whatever punishment she receives will be enough for some people. If I was her, I'd be considering moving.

Gosh that poor horse :( and all those people having to witness it. Horrific :(

A friend of mine was nearly killed by a careless driver. Two very small children at the time. Now quite big children. Friend had umpteen operations and still walks with crutches. Driver couldn't even be bothered to go to court. He is a professional man with a decent salary. He was fined £700.

Ourblanche, the insurers will take ages, most likely, esp if it is a matter of prosecution.

If the pubs round you were to do something like crowd funding to help him get through this, could you let the nest of vipers know?