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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Funeral Carriage Horse killed by car driver... aibu?

245 replies

AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 26/02/2016 16:13

To think the stupid woman should have the fucking book thrown at her?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-35653240

this second article covers it a bit better and has photos, but they've been edited/blurred. they're not graphic, but a couple do show the horse laying in the road as they were taken before it was removed from the scene.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/horrific-aftermath-accident-saw-car-10953991

From what i can gather, the driver overtook the funeral procession and then pulled in hitting the horse so hard it went over the top of its harness mate, and she also smashed the front of the hearse.

The horse had to be put down at the scene.

What on earth is the matter with people that they would so something like this?

OP posts:
Original poster
AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 27/02/2016 17:17

who made you the thread police limited.

don't like what i have to say, get the fuck off my thread.

what exactly do i need to 'give a rest'??

That i think the driver is a fucking idiot? She's not the only one judging by this thread and the january one.

OP posts:
DancingDinosaur · 27/02/2016 17:26

Its not an accident, its reckless selfish driving.

OurBlanche · 27/02/2016 17:28

It's possibly the overblown language and insistence that she did it on purpose - that being what a 'not accident' is.

ToastDemon · 27/02/2016 17:35

No-one has insisted that anything was done on purpose. We have merely pointed out that she didn't do something accidentally, she made a choice to behave in a certain way and it had consequences, unfortunately awful consequences for other people as is so often the way when people make poor, selfish choices when in charge of over a ton of fast-moving metal.
I haven't seen any overblown language, either, simply anger and dismay at what is a very distressing incident - and it's made more so by just how unnecessary it was.
I'm actually shocked this isn't a unanimous AIBU, it really is defending the indefensible.

snowymountaintops · 27/02/2016 17:35

Well of course she didn't kill the horse on purpose and I've no doubt she will heartily regret her actions but it was still an a bloody dreadful and avoidable accident all said and done.

I'm a horse owner and I find it heartbreaking to think what happened and how the poor owners and family must be feeling. Yes she should be prosecuted for dangerous driving if that's what it turns out to have been. We of course don't know her side of the story.

As for overtaking a funeral cortège, I wouldn't ever do it even if I had an 'appointment' to get to Hmm.

ToastDemon · 27/02/2016 17:38

I honestly think that the reckless, dangerous etc driving charges should only apply where there hasn't been injury.
If someone's reckless choice leads to the death or injury of another person, they should be charged with GBH or manslaughter in addition to the driving charges.
Maybe that way people would start taking the safety of others seriously and not be so cavalier with other human lives because they were running late or having a bad day.

OurBlanche · 27/02/2016 17:42

Toast, all of that is just a long description of an accident. The unintended consequences of a poor decision = an accident.

And there is some very clearly stated points of view... it isn't an accident, I hope she suffers every day of her life, etc etc etc. Lots of it over the 6 pages.

And it is unanimous, the driver does deserve to have 'the book' thrown at her. No one has said she could get off Scott free.

ToastDemon · 27/02/2016 17:50

I completely disagree that it's the description of an accident.
There's a reason why car crashes are now referred to as road traffic collisions by police in the UK. Not accidents. "Accident" creates the wrong impression and obfuscates that crashes are due largely to inattention and reckless behaviour.

And of course people will hope that her conscience troubles her - it's likely to be the only significant punishment she receives for this incident.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 17:51

I'm not the thread police OP and you have no right to tell me to get the fuck off your thread. You're not the new sheriff in town.

My first contribution was to thank people who were extremely patient and respectful with my mother's funeral cortege. The second was that you were making a meal of this thing now.

This woman was impatient and made a stupid mistake with serious consequences. She will be punished for that.

When she is, you can talk about that. What more you want?

OurBlanche · 27/02/2016 17:55

Ah well! Sometimes people are just too eager to wish the worst on others. It is depressing.

And try to remember, before anyone leaps on me, I know the carriage driver!

Gabilan · 27/02/2016 17:56

It is possible that there was a problem with the car we don't know about. That aside, the driver probably made the decision to overtake. The fact that she didn't complete the manoeuvre means she didn't check her way forward was clear and that means she broke the highway code. You don't have to plan to do something for it to be a likely outcome of your actions.

If I don't want to kill someone but fire a gun in a crowded area, it's not an accident if I shoot someone. If I leave nails lying in a road it's not an accident if someone gets a puncture. If I overtake on a blind bend and slam into oncoming traffic, it's my fault for making a bad decision. The fact I didn't mean to crash is irrelevant. It's a predictable outcome from my actions.

This is precisely why emergency services call them collisions not accidents - so that people start to take responsibility for the forseeable consequences of their actions.

Original poster
AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 27/02/2016 18:01

limted, i havent wished eternal damnation on the woman, or did you not read my OP?

i have simply said that it doesn't qualify as an accident because it came about from willful stupidity, and i think she ought to have the book thrown at her for it... IOW, be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Why would i need to give that a rest or post another thread?

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 18:02

Toast I'm a reporter. When I started 30 years ago, I was told to report encounters on the road as collisions, not accidents. It's nothing new.

Your fantasies about pursuing people for GBH or manslaughter will remain just that.

One day, and I hope that day will never come, you might cause the serious injury or death of someone by hitting them with your car or in some other incident without the intention of harming them.

You might think differently then about having it described as GBH or manslaughter.

kawliga · 27/02/2016 18:07

I agree that her first error was to try and overtake a funeral procession. Her second error was to crash into the horse and carriage. Horrific.

People saying they don't/didn't know what to do when they're driving along and meet a horse because they're not horse-riders or don't often meet horses...it's common sense. Just like meeting a child on the road or a sheep or a deer or anything else on the road that you're not used to meeting there. You wouldn't just race past them. You would slow down and stop if necessary. Like with any hazard. I don't think you need to be an expert on horses to figure this out.

In fact the less you know about horses and how they are likely to behave, the more you should slow down and stop if necessary - like with any unknown hazard.

Cyclists are a bit different, because there seems to be some kind of war going on between motorists and lycra-clad cyclists over mastery of the roads, with everyone on both sides trying to point score. Although even then the motorist should pull back because they're driving a ton of metal and the cyclist is vulnerable. Being in a car doesn't give you a right to get where you're going as fast as possible.

shazzarooney99 · 27/02/2016 18:08

Hope the idiot gets banged up for at least 5 years!!!!

BathshebaDarkstone · 27/02/2016 18:15

There are no words. Shock

Gabilan · 27/02/2016 18:15

This thread is depressing. I swear some people don't have the cognitive ability to drive. There are few other activities in which you can be wilfully negligent and people just shrug and say "oh what a terrible accident". The wilful intention to cause harm doesn't have to be there, it just has to be a likely outcome of your decisions. If you decide to overtake where it is unsafe and someone is then harmed, it is your responsibility. And yes, I'd say that if the decisions were mine. If you want to be in charge of a tonne of metal that can do 100+ mph then you should take full responsibility for what might happen. If you can't, then don't do it.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 18:22

It is an accident. Meaning that something happened as a result of something she did without intention of causing harm.

That doesn't mean I don't think she's a fucking idiot.

She will be charged. If she pleads or is found guilty, the magistrate or judge will take the manner of her driving and her mitigation into account when passing sentence.

I don't think I'm prejudging when I say that I guess that the standard of her driving will fall short of what the average person would do in her circumstance and she will be punished accordingly.

I've no idea whether you will be still vexed by this case at this point but I suspect her punishment might not be enough for you. That's why I suggested that you might want to start another thread.

In the meantime, would you like to be specific about what you think should happen to her apart from the vague 'having the book thrown at her' ?

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 18:33

Hope the idiot gets banged up for at least 5 years!!!!

But that's not going to happen is it shazzarooney99? And would you find an automatic punishment of five years' imprisonment for causing serious injury or death while doing something stupid while driving fair?

I have never overtaken a funeral procession, but I have done stupid things while driving which luckily didn't result in serious consequences. I don't believe anyone who has ever driven hasn't either.

Original poster
AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 27/02/2016 18:36

clearly you haven't rtft!

i said yesterday, she should at least be charged with dangerous driving.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 27/02/2016 18:37

We really need presumed liability in this country.

It is not right that people and animals are killed by reckless drivers, and get nothing but a couple of points on their license.

If it is shown that thete were no mitigating circumstances (eg driver massive heart attack) the driver in this case should certainly lose her license, if it is to be returned then she should be required t do some sort of remedial training. I guess she won't go to prison as drivers who kill humans through their stupidity. Several hours of community payback would also be appropriate.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 18:40

Gabilan your quarter ton of horse could bolt into traffic or a walker causing serious injury or death because he was spooked.

I wouldn't think you were wilfully negligent for riding him even though he wasn't bombproof. It would be an accident.

Themodernuriahheep · 27/02/2016 18:47

Super fly, I can see why you would say that. And perhaps several years so I would too.

But a) I, and I suspect most people, try to leave enough time, and b) it's pretty unlikely that you know where I live so you have no idea of the traffic conditions. C) you don't know what sort of appointments. Several that I have to get to have to be rescheduled if you are more than ten minutes late and a funeral cortège is not accepted as a reason. And it may not be possible to ring through.

So I think a little charity could be called for.

I agree it's better not to overtake, but the real issue is how it was done. If it had been safely and correctly undertaken then we would not have heard about it.

And, Our Blanche and crew, commiserations to coachman and firm, as well as family. V hard to get a pair trained and working together. I see they were Welsh cobs. V v sorry. My aunt had a pair and getting them to work together beautifully was a v long term thing. And they were strongly bonded, with each other and her.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 18:49

I have rtft OP and I have no idea what she should be charged with because I'm not the CPS. And neither are you. I suspect it won't be dangerous driving because that's a very high standard of proof and they probably won't achieve that to secure a conviction.

That's not an Establishment conspiracy. When things are tried before a jury, if it's not an appropriate charge, they are forced to acquit because it doesn't meet the standard.

kali110 · 27/02/2016 18:54

I too have avoided reading too many articles as i was getting upset and angry.
I'd say i hope the book is thrown at them, but it won't, so i really hope this does follow her around for the rest of her life.
Not only was a poor innocent creature left in agony and then put down, it's mate is now on it's own but some poor person's funeral was interupted!
This woman is a complete disgrace.
She deserves to have her name in the papers everywhere. People should know what she has done, absolutely disgusting. Hope she is ashamed.
Would she still be recieving a police pension? ( not sure howit works here?)