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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Funeral Carriage Horse killed by car driver... aibu?

245 replies

AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 26/02/2016 16:13

To think the stupid woman should have the fucking book thrown at her?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-35653240

this second article covers it a bit better and has photos, but they've been edited/blurred. they're not graphic, but a couple do show the horse laying in the road as they were taken before it was removed from the scene.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/horrific-aftermath-accident-saw-car-10953991

From what i can gather, the driver overtook the funeral procession and then pulled in hitting the horse so hard it went over the top of its harness mate, and she also smashed the front of the hearse.

The horse had to be put down at the scene.

What on earth is the matter with people that they would so something like this?

OP posts:
kali110 · 27/02/2016 18:56

she won't get done for dangerous driving, drivers who kill people rarely get that.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 27/02/2016 19:45

I've never understood why killing someone with a car isn't manslaughter...

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 19:50

Let's strip this person of her pension. While we're at it, why don't we do ?

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 19:52

I've never understood why killing someone with a car isn't manslaughter...

Don't you? Why don't you look it up?

Gabilan · 27/02/2016 20:01

In the US you can be prosecuted for vehicular manslaughter. It varies by state, but it does include negligent driving.

Anecdotally, I find cycling in France far preferable to cycling in the UK. Although statistically overall French roads are more dangerous than UK roads, they're better for cycling. And yes, penalties for hitting cyclists are severe, which means those "oopsie it was an accident" moments are uncommon. Funny how a penalty focusses the mind.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 20:22

We have things like this in Britain too. But it comes down to whether there is a realistic prospect of a conviction. We aren't wusses in Britain -far from it, we don't have the plea bargains they have in the US.

People face the strongest charge that the Crown Prosecution Service think they can go for. But it's a gamble and sometimes they think it is better to go for a less serious charge and get something, than put all their chips on a heavy charge and risk someone walking away.

But it's not the CPS. It's the jury, and that includes you.

It's often that when it comes to a jury trial, people are directed to acquit because the charge isn't right. Or they are inclined to think: 'Ooh er! I might have done that' and let people off.

Judges or magistrates are more likely to be less lenient.

Anyway, this woman will be tried. She's not going anywhere.

kali110 · 27/02/2016 20:33

Ahh yes that's the same because i asked if she would receive her pension Grin

Do some countries take your pension away if you are convicted of an offence?

Actually limited i probally would be happy with her losing her police pension.
She was lucky it was only the horse that died

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/02/2016 20:43

I'm just ignoring the ignorant and despicable comments from posters wishing all the plagues of Egypt on this driver. I don't believe in karma but I do believe in reality checks and some are really overdue.

I'd like to see drink driving at ZERO tolerance and ANY alcohol when driving made illegal. Imagine, driving is risky at the best and most alert of times... have a glass of something and then an accident and whilst you may be 'legal', you'll never really know whether NOT having that drink would have prevented the accident.

Maybe roads should be closed for funerals? Maybe traffic should be made to legally drive at the same speed as the rest, whether that is the cortege or other road users, everybody driving the same speed. Everybody would know where they are then perhaps?

The stench of smuggery on this thread is unbearable. This was a truly horrible thing to happen but the over-dramatics, handwringing and baying for blood are just beyond the pale.

snowymountaintops · 27/02/2016 20:47

Well said LyingWitch.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 20:48

Do some countries take your pension away if you are convicted of an offence? Actually limited i probally would be happy with her losing her police pension.

I have no idea what happens in other countries but I'm fairly sure that in the UK it's beyond the remit of a court that has convicted and sentenced you for a criminal offence to further punish you by taking away your pension or your house or to banish you beyond the seas or submit you to be put in the stocks.

Would you would think it was fair if you were convicted of say, fare dodging or speeding or putting out your rubbish on the wrong day for your pension to be taken away? Not all of it, obviously. Just a bit of it.

bakeoffcake · 27/02/2016 20:52

I agree with you Lying

I thought we were innocent until proven guilty in this country. No one on this thread knows what happened in that car. She may be an absolutely evil person who deliberately killed the horse or she may have had a medical episode which led to her losing control of the car. Or it could be something in middle of these two.

Let's wait for the evidence before baying for her blood.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/02/2016 20:53

limitedperiodonly I'm glad of your input on this thread. Yes, we should be able to take time to allow a funeral cortege to pass. Depending on where we are and where the cortege is going, that is often possible and I'm glad your mum's service went the way it did. I think most people will observe slow traffic and look for a reason why it's slow rather than speed off to find the reason up close and personal.

We have no idea why this driver didn't; no excuse would be good enough and I'm sure she will have her day in court. I hope it's a closed one so that pitchforkers don't get to perform whilst the bereaved are in any kind of earshot.

Original poster
AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 27/02/2016 20:55

Maybe driving without due care and attention if not dangerous driving?

I just don't want to see her get off with a slap on the wrist.

She made a dangerous choice that has resulted in the Death of a highly trained, expensive animal, the likely trauma of his companion and team mate. Injuries to the driver, the loss of his livelihood as this was his last team pair. Who is going to fill all his other bookings? Then there is the damage to the hearse. The cost of the vet, the removal of the horse from the road, never mind the trauma to the family of the lady who's funeral it was, all because she couldn't wait a few more minutes for the cortege to turn into the Cemetery.

Whatever she can be charged with, she should be, which is what i meant by 'to the full extent of the law'

I don't think thats an unreasonable wish considering the consequences of her foolish and ill thought out action.

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 21:09

She made a dangerous choice that has resulted in the Death of a highly trained, expensive animal,

So what if it was a rat? What should happen then? Most people think they are vermin but I really like rats. They are clever and cute and I believe they have a right to life. I'd go so far as to say that I prefer some rats to some people I have known.

The woman is going to be charged with an offence appropriate to her driving standards and intention at the time. That's reasonable.

AngelBlue12 · 27/02/2016 21:11

Even if it was a medical issue on her part that caused the accident she should still be banned from driving. I lost a good friend last week. He was walking with his grandson and they were involved in a two car accident, they both died. Drivers need to be WAY more careful and the penalties need to be much harsher. Last year a friends mum was run over and killed and the driver only got 5 months - he was driving without insurance...

bakeoffcake · 27/02/2016 21:11

Adrift But you don't know if her actions were "foolish and ill thought out" YET.
Unless you were in the interview room with her and she told you exactly what happened.

And whilst I'm very sad a horse has died, between 4 and 5 PEOPLE die EVERY DAY on the roads in the UK. But it takes a picture of a dead horse to make a thread about dangerous driving. People are lying dead in the road every day and no one seems to give much thought to that on MN. I am aware of this as my dds 17 year old, best friend was killed by a speeding driver. It devastated and changed the lives of so many people, including my dd. However the girl's mum, a close friend of mine, never once called for the drivers blood, she didn't want another young life ruined by her daughters death. She was pleased he didint go to prison for one stupid mistake.

So people on this thread who know absolutely nothing of the circumstances should put their pitchfoks away.

Original poster
AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 27/02/2016 21:12

honestly, if you think a fucking rat is even CLOSE to the value of a trained teamster, you have no clue.

OP posts:
Original poster
AdriftOnMemoryBliss · 27/02/2016 21:13

witnesses said she tried to merge back in BETWEEN the hearse and the horses.

How is that anything but 'foolish and ill thought out'??

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 21:19

if you think a fucking rat is even CLOSE to the value of a trained teamster, you have no clue.

Speciesist Shock

bakeoffcake · 27/02/2016 21:20

As I said, it innocent until proven guilty in this country. Thank god.

bakeoffcake · 27/02/2016 21:21

*it's

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 21:50

Everything bakeoffcake said

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/02/2016 21:56

Amen to that, bakeoffcake. Thank goodness we don't have guillotines still.

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 27/02/2016 22:02

honestly, if you think a fucking rat is even CLOSE to the value of a trained teamster, you have no clue.

Quite. To compare such an animal to a rat, unless a beloved pet rat, is fucking insulting.

I must admit I haven't read the whole thread but...as a horse rider/driver it would not surprise me if she simply had no respect for the horses and was trying to overtake. Which she shouldn't have been doing seeing as it was a funeral procession.

Experience tells me she probably was and didn't have any respect for the horses. Rarely do people realise the damage half a tonne of horse flesh can do when ploughed in to. What possible reason, other than a medical incident, could be an excuse for doing such a thing? Nothing in the eye witness reports suggests was swerving to avoid a child running in to the road.

limitedperiodonly · 27/02/2016 22:10

I hope it's a closed one so that pitchforkers don't get to perform whilst the bereaved are in any kind of earshot.

Lying I know what you mean but I think it always has to be an open court. It's a horrible case. But she's going to court and she will be punished unless she crashed into the horse by some blameless act - perhaps saving a child from choking to death. Who knows?

You'd think people could wait or get as exercised over the road deaths of humans mentioned by bakeoffcake, wouldn't you?

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