to say don't go and get signed off with stress

[writingonthewall]

I see this all the time on MN

OP: there's been a death in the family, I'm doing fine but need time off work to organise the funeral/comfort DH. work will only give me 3 days compassionate leave, after that I have to take holiday or unpaid leave

everyone else: go to your GP and get signed off with stress.

before I get flamed, I am a GP and I fully understand that bereavement hits different people in different ways. I sometimes do sign people off work after a bereavement - if you can't stand up for crying, then you can't work. And whilst there is no hierarchy of grief, as a general rule losing a child is very very traumatic whilst losing a parent is something that you do expect to happen at some point. So no problems with signing certificates for genuine mental health problems post bereavement.

What I do object to is this "get signed off with stress" when you aren't ill.

Do people not realise that, firstly, you are asking the GP to commit fraud. Secondly general practice is buckling. We are under resourced (all practices in one area I know are about to lose 20-25% of their funding) and even if we had the money, there are no GPs to recruit. And it's going to get worse if the new juniors contract doesn't get sorted out.

Every appointment taken up with a medicalisation of normal life, is an appointment that someone who is ill can't have and a potential delay in the diagnosis of someone else's cancer or other serious condition.

so please. see your GP if you are ill - physically or mentally. But think before you do and don't involve us in your battles with your employer and your general normal life events. Being sad after a bereavement is normal. The treatment is to talk about the person you have lost, cry a bit, and take care of yourself. It isn't to rush to the doctor for a medical cure.

I really don't understand why you are angry. I've never seen that advice offered as a 'cure all'. I've seen it offered when the OP is obviously struggling to function. They seem to be stressed or depressed. That is exactly what a GP is for. And if the GP decides they are none of those things then they will not sign the sick note.

I understand a patient complained about you not signing them off for their cruise but tbh it's very insulting to compare someone trying to use you to get a holiday to the occasions when OPs are advised to 'get signed off' on these boards.

mouldy you are wrong. I haven't read that thread but actually a new mum who is struggling and subject to abuse should see her GP. For numerous reasons, to ensure she receives support. To ensure her DC receives support if necessary and to log the abuse. Perhaps unsurprisingly there is a high correlation between depression and being abused. A GP needs to refer you to the necessary support services.

There should be bereavement leave and extended bereavement leave
Perhaps there should. Who would pay for it?

I think most people who lose someone need more than 3 days. I was a SAHM when I lost my dad and I couldn't have imagined having to work. If people need to get signed off they need to get signed off, even if it appears they aren't falling apart. Maybe the process should be made easier so it'a s not using so many resources.

No one is criticising those who have lost a child. The people I know who have lost children, well, all I can say is that they could barely function afterwards and I can see that their pain was beyond comprehension.

But... I have family members who are stressed about every darn thing. One was appointed SEN teacher at her school. The whole thing was so stressful that she was signed off for a few weeks before Christmas because of the added workload. You might say, Oh, poor SEN pupils without an advocate - except her school had no SEN pupils !! I couldn't flippin' believe my ears at that one. Her father spent years on extended sick leave until the firm paid him off. Her mother is currently on sick leave with a frozen shoulder (she is not a hod carrier). I can't believe their GP is so accommodating.

Good point stitchgliched.

Also, surely a GP's role is not to treat only physical problems?

I work in HR and if someone has been bereaved, and cannot work and has exhausted their compassionate leave they would HAVE to go off sick or else they would be on an unauthorised absence. After seven days they need a doctors note.

Why is grief not considered an illness, it can seriously affect someone's mental state.

I'd rather a doctor has to write a sick note than an employee gets in trouble for being on unauthorised leave on top of a bereavement.

Sorry OP but it's not just about you!

I think bereavement is such a tricky one. some people genuinely are better off working as its takes their mind of it etc

and some people just cant, I do think that nursing someone for years and then watching them die is fucking cruel, brutal and you have proper PTSD afterwards. I mean you have to put a smile on your face for them, often for years and years. then you have to hold their hand as they die

I mean, we all know people who take the piss. But they probably take up a small percentage of the population. It is then these people who are focussed on to blame busy gps and an overloaded system. How often have you heard it the other way around, where people struggle on and are too proud to go to the gp? Many more times than those taking advantage.

I'm not dismissing your concerns op, just that they are misdirected. Your practice is suffering from lack of funding, just like the rest of the nhs. That's the major problem, not timewasters. What percentage of your day would you say was taken up by timewasters? I am honestly intrigued. I wonder what the solution is.

I don't agree with what you are saying about patients not needing more time off for grief.

However I'm really surprised about the amount of appointments for sick notes. What an utter waste of time. I've needed a sick note twice and I had a phonecall appointment for them and picked them up at a later date from the reception. My gp is great at sorting things out over the phone apart from repeat prescriptions.

Wow, I am glad you are not my GP.

Perhaps we should turn it around and ask why do GPs give sick notes to people who are not sick? Would they really sign you off for six months if your 87-year-old father died?

I can't believe their GP is so accommodating.
I can.
It's a damn sight easier and quicker to sign a sick note than to discuss coping strategies with someone who demands a sick note and nothing else will do.

rhoda senco teacher would have had a massive workload increase alongside her already stressful teaching position. Thanks to the tories again trying to cripple our education system. Same cause. Different symptom.

You come across as very angry. If indeed you are a GP, you need to find another outlet to let off some steam, as it feels pretty unprofessional venting on a public site. I don't mean to sound facetious, but you are going to need to be signed off with stress soon if you can't find more constructive ways of discussing your workload pressures. This site is read by countless people who have been bereaved, maybe even today or this week. Reading something like this is not going to help them manage their own grief in the best way, if they were doubled up sufficiently to consider visiting their GP about it. At least some of them will think better of it, if they think that this is the response that they will get. Surely you must have enough emotional intelligence about you to realise that? It also looks like reading people's responses is winding you up. Do yourself a favour, and take this offline. Get yourself some support.

My dad dropped dead at work when I was in my early 20s, completely unexpectedly. I was a new graduate in my first job, and just couldn't manage to hold it together after the funeral - I think you kind of go on autopilot through that part, then it really hits you. I'd used my compassionate leave allowance (which was actually something like five days, so quite generous) by then, but my manager at work actually suggested I go to the doctor and get signed off - I wasn't fit to work, but didn't have a physical illness, so "stress following bereavement" was what went on the med cert. I'm so grateful that my manager didn't expect me to soldier on and that my GP was able and willing to give me a bit of a break to get my head together, and to help support my mum too.

3 days is a ridiculously short blanket period for death of a close relative, even when it comes to dealing with practicalities, never mind the emotional stuff. FIL died on a Thursday evening. It was Tuesday before MIL had all the necessary paperwork and information to go and register the death, never mind arrange a funeral. The borough he died in has one, overworked, coroner. The police ended up filling in some of the initial coroner's paperwork, for a straightforward death in hospital after an acute illness.

There were also things like having all the equipment he'd been loaned collected, sorting through his effects and so on.

OP got flamed for mentioning her dog because her comment about soldiering on is hardly relevant to a discussion of death of a parent or PIL. Why not mention how she coped with the death of her own close human relative, instead? That would be a lot more relevant and a lot less dismissive. If anyone is paralysed by grief after the death of their dog, there is probably a lot more going on than just sadness for their pet.

4-6 months is bloody ridiculous as a matter of course, though. DH went to the office part time for the week after his father's death so that he could keep up with the specialised work he was doing and still go and help MIL with all the cleaning, moving, sorting out etc as FIL's bedroom was like something out of extreme hoarders.

I'd rather a doctor has to write a sick note than an employee gets in trouble for being on unauthorised leave on top of a bereavement

Totally agree with you, maggie.

OK, grief and traumatic events are not illnesses, but if not given enough time away from work to process them, they can be the stepping stones towards debilitating mental illness (as Mrsdv demonstrates upthread). If your work won't give you compassionate/bereavement leave then I think your GP should be an ally in helping you to take the time you need, at a time when your mental health is fragile.

You know what a wasted appointment is? Me needing to make an appointment to see the GP so she can agree that I can have another appointment for a blood test for my iron levels, when I've already been anaemic and am feeling the symptoms again. Two hours of out of work in total with all the travelling. My GP is lovely, but I wish there was a system where you could phone up and just book a test, and the GP could approve or reject your request.

Sorry, should have added, every school has some level of sen - dependent on size - and the paperwork, assessments, allocations, referrals etc are all done often with zero extra time allocation.

Although do agree there are timewasters, still think they are the minority.

The problem is the world as it is, not just one system. People are just thoughtless if it's against a target they are working towards.
At the age of 19 my dad died and I was next of kin. No family could pick me up for a day and I was alone at home, so I went to work but explained that if a relative came then I would need to go.

What did my boss say? "Do the best you can and brave it out till the end of you shift"
I was bloody livid

But often when you are suddenly struck by the death of a close family member, you are just paralysed with grief. I was when my mum died. I'm a teacher, I couldn't go in and teach 30 kids wanting to cry all the time. Or rather I couldn't stop crying. I had to be signed off for 2 weeks, and I was still a mess when I went back.

Plus, we all work our nadgers off and pay national insurance for this sort of eventuality. The nhs is not free. We pay for it with our taxes. It just needs to have more money and management to make it work, not drive it into the ground whilst we blame it on a few timewasters who might actually have something wrong with them.

I wish companies were more generous with compassionate leave.

I work for a big retailer and our bereavement leave is actually extremely generous in comparison to most. We get a week fully paid for grandparents, grandchildren and in-laws, non-live-in partners and step-family. Two weeks fully paid for parents, children and partners (including non-married partners if you live together).

I've lost two grandparents in the last eighteen months and was immensely grateful not to have to worry about money and what was a horribly upsetting time. I couldn't afford to take more than a day unpaid leave in a month, so I'm very grateful that my employer was generous.

I don't know how you can force employers to be more generous, though. It's expensive to pay compassionate leave and pay cover for that person as well.

Gps are hardworking, no doubts about that. Even they crack under pressure, despite their training and natural hard work ethic. We should support them as most go into it to help people.