to say don't go and get signed off with stress

[writingonthewall]

I see this all the time on MN

OP: there's been a death in the family, I'm doing fine but need time off work to organise the funeral/comfort DH. work will only give me 3 days compassionate leave, after that I have to take holiday or unpaid leave

everyone else: go to your GP and get signed off with stress.

before I get flamed, I am a GP and I fully understand that bereavement hits different people in different ways. I sometimes do sign people off work after a bereavement - if you can't stand up for crying, then you can't work. And whilst there is no hierarchy of grief, as a general rule losing a child is very very traumatic whilst losing a parent is something that you do expect to happen at some point. So no problems with signing certificates for genuine mental health problems post bereavement.

What I do object to is this "get signed off with stress" when you aren't ill.

Do people not realise that, firstly, you are asking the GP to commit fraud. Secondly general practice is buckling. We are under resourced (all practices in one area I know are about to lose 20-25% of their funding) and even if we had the money, there are no GPs to recruit. And it's going to get worse if the new juniors contract doesn't get sorted out.

Every appointment taken up with a medicalisation of normal life, is an appointment that someone who is ill can't have and a potential delay in the diagnosis of someone else's cancer or other serious condition.

so please. see your GP if you are ill - physically or mentally. But think before you do and don't involve us in your battles with your employer and your general normal life events. Being sad after a bereavement is normal. The treatment is to talk about the person you have lost, cry a bit, and take care of yourself. It isn't to rush to the doctor for a medical cure.

Leaving aside bereavement, isn't stress a cause of illness rather than the illness itself? I can understand a diagnosis of anxiety or depression, but do doctors actually 'sign people off' with stress? If the stress is work related, Isn't the doctor's ability to solve the problem limited?

It sounds like an unhelpful way to pussyfoot around the fact that somebody is either suffering from a mental illness or that an organisation has a defective work culture.

MrsDeVere, i feel for you luv,imin the totally same position xxx

I just don't think you can always be that clear cut about when something is a mental illness and when it is a normal reaction to grief merrymouse?

Fluctuating mental well-being is something that we all experience I think? As I said before, just like physical health really.

How do you know who is "functioning"? I may be in control of my emotion, able to get dressed and paint a face on, and talk calmly to a GP for five minutes. Does that mean I'm ok, that I could sustain this for a full day (and week) at work? I am often calmer when speaking to a doctor as I feel my problem is in their hands now, and they will help me. I will remember to let my emotions show if this arises again!
Dealing with the practicalities of a funeral can be very stressful indeed, particularly if it involves dealing with difficult relatives who you may have little to do with the rest of the time. So it may not be a "lie" to describe this as stress.
How often, in the grand scheme of things, do people need to take time off for bereavement? I'm sure things like back problems cause far more absence. Given there are only so many relatives most people have anyway, can't we cut a bit of slack for the few times in someone's life when they feel they can't cope with a death?

The problem writing is that th NHS is crumbling and you are somehow putting the responsibility on a certain group people, the ones who you don't think are ill enough to warrant you seen them.

And thgen when people says 'Yay but my company only allows 3 days for the death of a parent whatever and I need more time' (which I'm pretty sure you will agree on), then you are saying 'well not my problem. I don't want to hear about it.'. This is one bit of the system you have to change but I can't so though. And oh btw, the GP who actually help someone like this and shows caring and compassion means that they help you steal from the company, ie you are laying the guilt on people. A lot.

Now, maybe your comment should be

1- there is a huge problem with the NHS and we need to change that.
Note: some countries like France can actually run a system that WILL see patients whithin a reasonnable time frame, will also look after them correctly (see the surprisngly high number of still birth in the UK, cancer deaths and the fact peole can't be treated appropriately, or the fact you just can't see a GP when you need to) so somehow, somewhere it is the British system that isn't good enough, not the idea of a proper NHS.

2- there is also a big issue with compassionate leave when a clsoe family member dies whoch could actually be looked at. Instead we find ways around it with asking for a sick note vecause somehow it is more acceptable to be off for a week for been sick than for grieving.

Instead you are basically saying that you don't care about people are going through and whether the system is explaining their attitude. Nope, you are upset because of all these people that you have to see, work you have to do like letters) that stop you from doing real work, ie seen the 'desserving patients'.
You do realise the irony in that don't you?

We, members of the public and your customners do not have any responsibility on the high level of workload you have. It is a political issue. Take it with politics and stop laying the responsibility on the members of the public that can't do anything about it.
And maybe stop believing the politicians that have done a fantastic job at convinving everyone that patients are at fault, not them, not the system the same way that they have manged to convince everyone that its all the benefit 'spongers' that are at the cause of the deficit.

I said 'leaving bereavement aside' and was talking about using the word 'stress' as a diagnosis juggling.

I think it is normal for grief to be debilitating, but I wouldn't say that feeling grief = suffering from stress. Grief is caused by suffering a loss.

Grief can cause a diagnosable illness, but in the normal course of things what would the GP be supposed to do - say "yes this person has lost somebody close to them and they are indeed very, very sad"?

I don't think compassionate leave should require a sick note from a GP, and if it does that is a failure of organisational culture.

I agree OP. I sometimes think I am much more resilient than most people, I've had some horrendous times and never once signed myself off or called in sick. i think people are too quick to get signed off and give up for 'stress'. Man up and get on with it!

In my place of work people generally take 4-6 months off sick on full pay for the death of a parent

Where on earth do you work?? When I was 17 and my Dad had a terminal illness and was on his death bed I slept in the hospital in the chair next to him and went to work in the day, when he died I took a couple of days off and then went back to work because that's what life is, thins happen and that's sad but actually having a normal routine and going to work etc is much better for your mental health than wallowing around at home in my opinion. 4-6 months is very excessive. I think my Mum took 2 weeks after Dad died.

'I agree OP. I sometimes think I am much more resilient than most people, I've had some horrendous times and never once signed myself off or called in sick. i think people are too quick to get signed off and give up for 'stress'. Man up and get on with it!'

Surely, Sparkly, you are one special snowflake.

Teachers can't take annual leave. I ha e spoken to teachers not allowed a phased return after the death of a child, not allowed unpaid leave to look after a terminally ill spouse. Schools are toxic places to work, with little or no flexibility.

I do agree with you. But until many employers become more compassionate lots of people feel they have no choice.

And we wonder why there is such a stigma to admiting you have mental health problems in this country.
"Sucking it up" can in the long run lead to the most hideous problems but hey ho best get on with "sucking it up" cause I am clearly such a wimp compared to all the well hards on here.

Wow talk about double posting!! Sorry everyone, internet problems will get MN to get rid of duplicates.

Sparkly I have to say having had both depression and a chronic illness coming from not stopping work when I should have done so (ie going way over my own limitations both on an emotionally/stress pov and on a physical pov), I am VERY careful to tell someone 'to just get on with it'.

The reality is that its not because you have been able to do so in x circumstances that someone else will be able to. We do NOT have the same resillience/energy/strength (physical and emotional) and to expect everyone to just suck it up because some can isn't the way to go. Actually it's the best way to ensure that the ones who can't just suck it up end up ill, sometimes for a very long time, which then creates even more problems in the long run (ie long term sickness/disability paid by the state, less money for the family etc etc etc). And thats wo even thalking abut the wellbeing of that person!

My experience is that actually most people do try and 'suck it up' the best they can. The ones who are taling the mick are very far in between.
Putting people who genuinely can't do more than they have in the same bag as those who can't be bothered 'because it loos the same and like they ahven't tried' isn't fair. Its not fair on thos who are trying and its not fair on those who aren't.

Fanny I don't recognise your take on schools at all. When DF died leaving DStepM with four young DC she had lots of time off over an extended period of time. Her colleagues and head knew what had happened and were sympathetic. That was why she stayed there afterwards rather than try for promotion elsewhere.