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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find this poster in a train station wrong?

781 replies

megadude · 15/02/2016 16:43

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

To find this poster in a train station wrong?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
megadude · 15/02/2016 20:21

Very split opinion! Sorry to depress you all on a Monday night, at least it's half term and the new series of better call Saul starts tonight.

I did tweet Greater Anglia but got no response btw.

OP posts:
Waitingfordolly · 15/02/2016 20:25

I don't like the poster. I would rather there was something there about men needing to consider their night-time behaviour and the impact it has on other people such as women.

This. And also advice to men (and women) about what to do if they suspect someone is in danger and what the warning signs are are. For example we know many / most people will be reluctant to get involved, particularly if there are others around who are also not acting. Advice from a psychologist I read is that if you are in a situation and need help is to ask someone very specifically to help you, e.g. man in the blue jacket call the police, otherwise people just assume someone else will do something or are affected by peer pressure not to intervene.

megadude · 15/02/2016 20:25

Gah its tomorrow!

OP posts:
MaidOfStars · 15/02/2016 20:28

Thanks ghosty, those are good.

thebiscuitindustry · 15/02/2016 20:28

I don't think the burglary example is a true analogy either. For one thing it's dependent on how you define the "safekeeping" of a woman and whether such a thing should actually exist. For every definition I can think of, women's rights to all the same freedoms men can expect and enjoy are eroded. A woman is not a possession or an object.

MackerelOfFact · 15/02/2016 20:29

If it had been issued by the police, I'd think it was victim-blaming, as clearly it would be referring to crime.

But this has clearly been issued by a train company, and my first thought was 'don't fall on the tracks, fall down the stairs, get on the wrong train or generally act like a dick when you're drunk.'

Yes it has women on it, but why wouldn't it? Is rape the only bad thing that can happen to drunk women? Aren't women and men equally likely to shut their arm in the door or leave their credit card on the seat?

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 15/02/2016 20:30

Sorry, DS interrupted and I didn't think that had sent.

Another way to think about 'protecting yourself' is that if you do all the right things and behave in all the right ways, another woman may get raped instead of you. I think turning it round this way shows where the real problem lies - men believing they have an utter entitlement to sex. Because you'd never think that saving yourself = throwing the drunk girl in the next carriage under the bus, which = ok.

And of course when women do everything right and still get raped...

It's magical thinking, thinking your own actions can influence someone else's behaviour and as always, it turns the debate towards what women should and should not do, instead of sending a very clear message. Do not rape

Which incidentally, would also work on a poster.

DustOffYourHighestHopes · 15/02/2016 20:30

I totally agree with the FACT that if you don't walk alone at night, avoid certain areas, don't get drunk etc, you are less likely to be attacked. But this is a public poster, from a governmental body telling us WHAT to do. There's a big difference between a mum telling her daughter, 'Take XYZ precautions to keep yourself safe', and a local authority telling women that the streets are NOT theirs to safely roam.

As a (rubbish) analogy, a woman can be told by friends/family 'this is the biggest load of shite there ever was, it shouldn't be like this, but if you take a really long maternity break it may harm your career'. But it would be awful for an official message to be broadcast 'get to work asap and LEAN IN or no one will want to hire you'.

MackerelOfFact · 15/02/2016 20:31

Also, OP, you're visible in the reflection of the poster, just in case that bothers you!

DustOffYourHighestHopes · 15/02/2016 20:34

(Sorry, not a governmental body. But you know what I mean. Authoritative body)

Psycobabble · 15/02/2016 20:36

I don't think it's victim blaming , reminding women to be careful isn't saying that it will be their fault if anything does happen

For example I wouldn't walk home alone after a night out that's not to say I shouldn't be able to however we unfortunately live in a world were there would be a risk involved in doing so .

However maybe there should be other posters to include men too after all they could still be attacked , injured because there drunk etc

wickedwaterwitch · 15/02/2016 20:38

I agree with Lonny and pippity, good posts

Olddear · 15/02/2016 20:42

I am careful on nights out and we would take care of each other. Didn't know I should get overwrought about it, just thought it made sense.

ghostyslovesheep · 15/02/2016 20:42

why is it always women who have to modify their behaviour in public - because of men?

Life is one big victim blaming session when you have a vagina

Why do the powers that be feel we need educating about risk - like no women knew before it was pointed out to them that bad things happen and bad people exist

those bad things and bad people can also be encountered by men - where's their poster?

Still I'm glad someone said to me 'hey woman - you know rape' because it would never have occurred to me that that was a thing having never been verbally sexually harassed in broad daylight, felt up on trains, pushed to far by over keen boyfriends (poor loves) or felt scared in a mans presence

CrotchetQuaverMinim · 15/02/2016 20:55

I think people are pretending to misunderstand the theft analogy. No-one is saying that doing things in the hopes of reducing rape risk means that rape is the same as theft, or that vaginas need to be locked up. They are saying that in the abstract, doing things that might reduce the chances of a crime happening to you are sensible things to do, but that it doesn't mean that it's your fault if that thing does happen. Likewise, avoiding unlit places, being too drunk to know what's happening, staying with friends, etc, are sensible precautions to keep you safe. it doesn't mean it's your fault if someone rapes you. Lots of black and white thinking happening, too. Most rapes aren't carried out by random strangers. So why does that mean we shouldn't still try to prevent those few that are? Men should be the ones who are educated not to rape. Agreed. By why not also take precautions yourself against some of the risks? You can't prevent rape unless you never go out. Again, agreed. But there are sensible things that might reduce the risk slightly, and being careful when drunk, staying in a group, etc might help. It doesn't have to be either/or.

And I still wouldn't have automatically assumed that the poster was anything to do with rape, if I saw it. More to do with train/rail/track safety, high heels, floating clothing, drunk escapades, stairs, train/platform gaps, etc etc. Maybe they are targetting women because that's who's been having the problems lately, that's who's been injured, that's who's been so drunk they can't remember their address, whatever. Maybe it's because it's a newer problem. It just doesn't automatically make me think 'victim blaming' and 'rape warning' when I read it.

Psycobabble · 15/02/2016 20:55

It's terrible yes that we should have to modify our behaviour and could bang my head against a wall at the attitudes of a lot of men towards the sexual objectification of women that they see as normal harmless everyday behaviour that's without even gettin into the realms of rapists etc

But honestly from my own experience as much as it feels like why the fuck should I not be able to walk home alone drunk as an example , a particular choice I made wen drunk and getting home once led to me been assaulted and I knew at the time it was a bad idea and I won't make that mistake again . He was 100% to blame I should be able to walk were the hell I want but wether it's right or not there is a risk and I don't think reminding women of that fact is sayin that they are in anyway to blame

Sallyingforth · 15/02/2016 20:56

local authority telling women that the streets are NOT theirs to safely roam.

Rubbish. It says nothing of the sort.
It says "Remember to look after yourself and your friends.", which is sound practical advice for anyone out on the town.

You won't deal with the real problem of sexual violence by imagining things like this.

Inertia · 15/02/2016 21:00

As well as the suggestion of victim blaming, it also indicates that the rail company are telling women to keep themselves and their friends safe, because the rail company doesn't intend to employ adequate staff to ensure their customer's safety. Far cheaper to blame women for any crime or accident that befalls them than to employ enough staff to properly supervise trains and stations.

Havalina1 · 15/02/2016 21:05

I don't take any offence from that poster, other than its naff design.

It's promoting herd mentality isn't it? - look after your group and be sure everyone is ok.

The same poster could work for men too.

TooOldForGlitter · 15/02/2016 21:05

When I was raped I was wearing jeans, trainers and a nirvana hoody. Did I fail to sufficiently lock up/guard/hide my vagina? I was sober, am I a worthy rape victim? I was alone though so maybe the sensible clothes and sobriety are cancelled out by the mere fact that I dared to walk around, as the owner of a vagina, alone. Such utter fucking drivel I can't even form a coherent post!

ghostyslovesheep · 15/02/2016 21:07

so why are ONLY WOMEN on the poster if it's not specifically aimed at women Hmm

LineyReborn · 15/02/2016 21:09

I travelled back on a packed train from an event one Friday night with two male friends and we didn't feel safe.

Four men in our carriage were drunk, still drinking, and violent with each other and objects around them, and screaming at other passengers, so we moved through the train (no other seats) and found the ticket collector. The ticket collector literally walked away from us saying there was no guard and nothing he would do.

We alighted from the train at the same stop as the drunk men - a city railway station - at about 10pm. The men were out of control. There were NO STAFF anywhere.

I'm not sure what poster would have made us safer.

For the men not have behaved like that, and for some staff to have been on duty, would have helped though.

megadude · 15/02/2016 21:14

Yes I'm aware there is a glimpse of me in the poster - hello!

I was with my husband when I took the photo. He agreed that it was victim blaming, but said " you've got to be tuned into that way of thinking to spot it", and "the danger is the subtlety of these messages".

He is quite heartened that it's quite an even split, as he thinks 20 or 30 years ago, nobody would have noticed.

OP posts:
TooOldForGlitter · 15/02/2016 21:16

It doesn't matter what we as women do. It just doesn't. This idea that if you are a good girl and you obey the rules then you're safe is abhorrent. What does it really mean? That the next woman will be raped rather than you and that's ok? You could be off your face drunk and falling all over and half naked and you will only be raped if you meet a rapist.

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