To find this poster in a train station wrong?

[megadude]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

Oh are we back to locking up our vaginas? Excellent.

Can someone explain why Peter Cuthbertson deserves to be taken any more seriously than, say, me?

Apart from the fact that he's a man, obviously............

I think you might have misinterpreted what Bert was saying there Itsme.

I wasn't quoting this clown 'as a credible source of law enforcement' . Just an example of more advice that 'crime shouldn't happen, but it does so take precautions'"

You could have fooled me! If the following paragraph doesn't sound like someone quoting an authority on a subject I don't know what does!

"'Peter Cuthbertson of the Centre for Crime Prevention urged people to take “common sense measures” such as keeping valuables out of sight or close to hand and being aware of who is around you. “But the key point,” he added, “is that people should be able to go about their lives without fear of muggings in the first place.'"

But I could quote a thousand people online who agree with my point of view too. I won't, because I can't see the point.

I get what you are saying but to me its the same as telling your teen not to walk down cycle tracks after dark. Fact is there will always be scum and sexual offenders in the world, you can't possibly catch them all. What you can do is put up posters targeting the highest risk groups, reminding them to be careful. I don't see it as saying it is a woman's own fault, just a reminder to minimise risk where possible. Don't leave that one friend to walk home alone because nothing could possibly happen to anyone you know. Don't get so drunk you are unaware of who is around you unless you are going to get a cab home and if any of your friends are that drunk, make sure they do too rather than assuming they will be fine. That us my interpretation of it.

Alexa- why aren't there any men in the poster then when men are far more likely to be attacked than women? Does anyone even suggest that a man who is mugged for his phone or wallet shouldn't have been walking alone or shouldn't have been drunk?

Well I've read every post on this thread and I still don't believe that the poster is saying anything more than the words printed on it.
I don't see anything there about victim blaming.
Of course you can read anything into it if you really want to find it. But there y'go...

"What you can do is put up posters targeting the highest risk groups...."

The highest risk group is young men.

Here we have a poster showing three young women on a night out, no doubt drinking alcohol, and they are being warned/reminded whatever word you would like to use that they should stay safe.

No, we are back to the glaringly obvious that advice is given out for a whole host of issues. None that blame the victim.

Respectfully, we'll have to disagree on that.

Always stay in a group is not glaringly obvious advice for me, a person who lives in the opposite direction to 99% of her friends.

'Take care' is not glaringly obvious advice, because it's meaningless. My ASD pre-teen would be by that - 'what is care and where should I take it'

And I think it does contribute to a culture of victim blaming, as evidenced 100s of times on this thread: barristers' comments to women, juries' opinions of women, low conviction rates, low reporting rates, the way sexual assault is covered in the media, etc etc etc

Sallyingforth- why are the people on the poster all women?

Of course you can read anything into it if you really want to find it. But there y'go...

Well, quite. Which is why an information poster in a public place ought to be a bit more specific. Rule One of advertising: the public should be able to regurgitate your message in less than fifteen seconds. If ten different people would give ten different interpretations, it hasn't worked.

Bert
Because that's this particular poster's intended audience.

You seem to be fixated on what is not in the poster rather than what is.

It doesn't advise men to watch out for pickpockets, and it doesn't tell children not to play on the tracks. It doesn't ask you not to drop litter. You might find those signs somewhere else.

It's very likely that this particular sign has been put in that particular place because of previous attacks on women in that area. Have you thought of that? Why would any woman not want to be advised of the risk?

Actually, don't answer my questions. We are neither of us going to convince the other.

Has anyone ever seen a poster telling young men to "keep safe" and advising them to stay together and not make themselves vulnerable? Even though they are the group most likely to be attacked or mugged?

"It's very likely that this particular sign has been put in that particular place because of previous attacks on women in that area. Have you thought of that?"

Under those circumstances, a clear and explicit explanation of what has happened is the right thing to say, surely? The police do put up specific warnings like that. How would you feel if there was an opportunist rapist in your area and this vague poster was all the warning you got?

Yes - at best it's crap; at worst it's pernicious.

Which is why an information poster in a public place ought to be a bit more specific.

That's a different issue and has been answered already. There are many things that could go wrong when you are out with friends having a good time and perhaps relaxed after a few drinks. If all the possibilities were listed it would be a sheet of words that wouldn't be noticed. This sign is a general reminder to be aware of your situation and look out for each other.

Bert
I refer you to my last sentence.

it seems nothing anyone says about rape prevention is politically acceptable.

Women, keep yourself safe .... X
Men, don't rape women! ..... X
Women, go out, wear short skirts, get drunk, it's your right .... X
Men, you all have the potential to rape, so get it in writing before .... X

Booming
You're right of course but rape is such a vicious crime and so personal that it's always going to be sensitive. As this thread demonstrates so well.

But but but

The poster doesn't say it's about sexual assault. Given that it's in a railway station, which hosts far more plain assaults, thefts, alcohol poisoning etc than rapes, it is either about something else (what specifically?) or it ought to be.

It should be a genuinely general "look after yourselves when you're tired and drunk" poster, which would be very easily achieved by having a mixture of people pictured. There wouldn't have been 650 posts discussing it if they hadn't pictured only young women in relatively figure-hugging clothing.

"Bert
I refer you to my last sentence."

Ah. The last refuge of the under thinker!