To find this poster in a train station wrong?

[megadude]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

I'm alright here thanks.

I didn't say I was sick of repeating myself either. You added the 'sick of' part.

It's not just 'advice' it's a reminder - it serves to remind us of the risk and police our behaviour

Things like that impact on women's feelings of safety and freedom

Here is an example of rape being taken seriously by a Judge

Notice how the article points out that the woman had gone to a taxi rank but it was closed.

Indeed. Unfortunatelyall crimes of violence are insufficiently punished.

If the article was about a mugging then I doubt it would mention whether or not the victim had gone to a taxi rank. It smacks of "ah well at least she tried not to put herself at risk".

"That article is disturbing particularly 'accepted the attack involved violence, but not a gratuitous type.' surely that is the only 'type' of violence there is."

A sickening sentence to read isn't it.

Stay safe when said to a member if your family is the same "advice" as sleep tight...or have good dreams, and just as useful

It's just struck me that if this is just a generalized "look out for each other, keep safe" type message it must be the first time ever that a group of women has been chosen to represent people in general.

"behave" is another one i use a lot

I dont think anyone has said that posters in general arent a good idea...its just this one is completely shit

A better one would be a mixed group saying look after your friends...although thats still not very helpful

I dont understand how people can make the huge leap from "shit victim blaming poster" to "well lets never do any campaigns poster or otherwise"

Good point bertrand

“You have done it, right there, shifted blame onto the women who were attacked!” internalised misogyny at its worst!

“It will be noticed by potential rapists and allow them to justify their actions.

It will be noticed by future jurors and when they end up on a rape case they will think "well, she didn't follow the rules."

Exactly! As myself and pp have said the appalling way rape victims are treated by society and especially in court and this perpetuation of the idea that there are ‘real’ rape victims and ones who ‘didn't obey the rules and brought it on themselves’ must be STOPPED wherever it occurs and however subtle or SEEMINGLY inoffensively.

“It isn't reminding "people" it's reminding women.” Young women on a night out probably drinking, dancing too. Not elderly women (who are also raped). “When you've had a night out” so that's apparently ‘against the rules’ too!

Ghosty I also often attend events or come home alone as I live in back end of nowhere and my friends don't. Agreed am I not allowed a social life?!

“Hmmm, if only we could think of a way that we could target the perpetrators instead of the victims...

Nah, that's just crazy talk, the way we are handling it right now is just fine.” Yea it's clearly working SO well! Hmm

“But society doesn't do both, just tells women to adjust their behaviour. That coupled with low reporting rates and miniscule conviction rates send the message that it's a crime you can get way with, which it is.” And until we tackle the rape culture at EVERY level it won't change!

Perhaps we should request no one runs any campaigns at all?

Of course we should run campaigns but it is worth thinking about the effectiveness of them and the unintended consequences.

I'm thinking particularly of a campaign warning commuters against pickpockets on the London Underground in the '90s.

It was said that pickpockets, who often work in highly organised gangs, would stand near warning posters. When people passed the posters and read them, they'd sometimes pat themselves to check their wallets were safe. So the pickpocket would follow them to relieve them of it.

This mostly worked against men, who keep money in pockets, rather than women, who generally keep their money and everything else, in their handbags.

I thought that was a really good example of learning about the law of unintended consequences and acting upon it. But TfL in its infinite wisdom have reinstated posters warning against pickpockets.

I can't help the conviction rates, a poster will never fix that. This is an innocuous reminder for everyone to remain cautious and look after friends. It should feature a mixed group but it hardly 'subtle props up rape culture'.

But we do exist in a 'rape culture', whereby convictions rates are virtually non-existent, and women aren't believed when they say they've been raped. Where women are at least held partially responsible for being raped.

To all those who say this poster is nothing to do with that - that it doesn't contribute to the rape culture we undoubtedly exist in...

What do you think does contribute to it, if not (seemingly innocuous, seemingly 'helpful') things like this?

Do you think this culture has sprung up out of a vacuum?

Sometimes I think people get bogged down in the one small jigsaw piece of an issue (which they think is just fine and utterly non-contributory), and are unwilling (or perhaps genuinely unable?) to see the much bigger picture that the jigsaw piece is feeding into.

In fact, I think this about all sorts of things when I watch debate unfold on feminist-related issues. I'm not surprised to see it happening here again.

As long as we can keep the odd woman here and there safe, there's no need to think of a bigger, better strategy that might go someway towards keeping womankind safer...

That should say, as long as we can try to keep the odd woman safe...

Innocuous means not likely to offend.

That poster offends me. And it doesn't work.

That's why I said 'seemingly'!

Believe me, it offends me, too.

Dowager Believe me when I say I believe you when you say you want me to believe you when you say it offends you too. Too many believes there. It's unbelievable when people don't get it

I was quoting from your quote and I couldn't be bothered to search for the original.

This is the Centre For Crime Organisation that you have quoted itsmine

A cursory glance shows that it, and its spokesman Peter Cuthbertson, aren't credible.

urged people to take “common sense measures” such as keeping valuables out of sight or close to hand

I cannot keep my sex out of sight or close to hand.

He's not 'credible'?!

That's what I said. Look him up. Don't roll your eyes at me

Peter Cuthbertson isn't a police officer. He isn't even the Police and Crime Commissioner for Darlington and Durham which is a largely discredited position. He's just a loudmouth who wants to be.

This is his twitter page

I've added his pictures

too

It's a joke that you are quoting this clown as a credible source for law enforcement.