To find this poster in a train station wrong?

[megadude]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

Find it a bit odd that people don't think this is about rape AT ALL, because it's from a train company. Is there one targeting men or mixed groups too?

Sure train company has valid concerns re people falling over, trashing trains etc etc but if you asked women what fears they might have re a night out, I think sexual assault would be on the list, and just showing women reinforces this.

Looks like they have form: www.railtechnologymagazine.com/The-Sleepers-Daily-Blog/southeastern-forced-to-remove-sexist-safety-poster-across-70-stations

I think some of you are reading it wrong. If it were 3 silly 15 year olds in mini skirts, boob tubes and 7 in heels then yes, but it's 3 sensible looking ladies that don't look completely leathered. It's just saying that unfortunately you need to be aware there are nutters out there.. Be careful.
Just like if you were out shopping on a Saturday afternoon you need to be careful that you don't leave your purse exposed in your bag. It's just a fact of life.

Men never need be aware of 'nutters' (nice language ) then FR?

You don't think there's a tiny issue that it's much, much, much more common for men to be assaulted in public than women, yet the poster shows women?

Looks like the poster can mean whatever you want it to mean.

The unfortunate truth is that young women are more vulnerable to attack than young men. That's not to say young men are totally safe - my youngest son was "beaten up " in a random attack when he was 18. It put him off going for a night out in town for years.
Advising young women to take care may be considered outrageous by some but to me it is no more wrong than advising anyone to take care when crossing the road. There are some utter bastards out there who regard women as prey - as a man I know this because I have worked with such vermin and have heard their talk and opinions.
If a poster would help make my daughter aware of potential dangers - and it won't be long before my grand-daughter is off on nights out - then roll them out everywhere.

Erm, bar, they're not, you know.

Young men are statistically at far greater risk of being attacked in public.

Stats here from a few years ago. 'Young men were the most likely to be the victims of violence'. www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_298904.pdf

Guess we need a poster campaign, huh?

jeanne men might be more likely to be attacked - women are more likely to be raped. This poster, in my opinion, is highlighting that

I think we're going round in circles here.

Yes, women are more likely to be raped.

But the poster seems to suggest they can do something to prevent it.

In the absence of magic telepathic friends who can spot the perfectly ordinary-looking man who's a rapist, I'm not quite clear how?

Any reminder to young women to look out for their friends etc on a night out is good, having seen certain ugly things on an evening in London I think it's ok. I get some may see it as victim blaming etc, but I don't.

I personally don't see much wrong with it. I don't see it as victim blaming at all. The children's campaign about talking to strangers, it reminds me of that. The fact of the matter is women are vulnerable after nights out. When I was 18 I was mugged and a man attempted to assault me, no it wasn't my fault but I did go wondering drunk down a back alley. I think a campaign to educate women to stay safe is fine. It would be naive to assume women aren't targeted more then men and this campaign is sexist.

Um comparing it to drink driving laws ? I assume you mean 1966/7 drink driving laws since you say "laws were passed " well yes obviously once I began illegal people did do it less . Rape is alredy illegal .

If you mean the social side such as the Christmas adverts regarding drink driving that were normally quite shocking then yes they to worked . However people still drink drive . Plenty of them to!! Also people still choose to rape people. So I stand by my original point that you quoted about rapists already knowing that they shouldn't be raping people.

However were I think the time money and resources should be is educating young men about consent I mean at school / uni age . Challenging there attitudes towards women and sex .

I don't see a problem in reminding people to look out for each other - the sate some people get into when they've had a drink really does boggle the mind sometimes. No it is not a crime to go out and have fun and yes women do have the right to behave in the same way as men - with rights come responsibilities. I think there should be a poster for men as well - they are actually more likely to become victims on a night out ( fights and assaults are more common than rape).

I think a campaign to educate women to stay safe is fine.

I take your point, but what is educational about "Take care when you've had a night out. Remember to look after yourself and your friends"?

its all about minimizing the risk of being a victim of crime/ having an unfortunate accident

a person committing a crime is 100% responsible for that action but there are many things everyone can do to try and avoid being a victim

The majority of men are not rapists and don't need telling how not to be one! Those that are, will not be put off by a poster telling them not to do it.

Lots of people get attacked when they are drunk, alone and vulnerable. Women are vulnerable to rape, men more vulnerable to getting beaten up and robbed rather tgan sexual assault. This is because the world contains a lot of evil people.

To me it would be sensible to have a poster showing both men and women, with the advice to stay together. The advice seems fundamentally sensible if aimed at both sexes.

It would also help if the police were more efficient at prosecuting rapists and if European governments cared enough about women to not allow more men into the country who have no respect for women or the law. We already have enough men like that, without letting more in.

Seriously amazed at the number of people who can see 'nothing wrong' with this poster's message.
Really?

There's really no confusion, regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or not; it is aimed at women.

If the designers struggled with this (and thought a mixed group might give off even worse signals), then why picture anybody on the poster at all?

Why not just a big colourful poster, no picture, and just the words ''Take care on a night out''?

Why? Look at the picture. It's got women on it because it's aimed at women. Women who have been out at night. Poster designers aren't stupid.

Why would a train company think it was their job to remind women to take measures to avoid rape? And to go to the bother of engaging an ad agency and spending real money to do so?

The train company is really only bothered about its own convenience: it is detrimental to their operations when people go out and get drunk, fall over (night out heels?) and their staff have to call an ambulance or hold their hair while they are being sick.

For whatever reason they decided they particularly had to address women with this campaign- maybe the majority of their time is spent sorting out women in this situation.

I am sure they don't want women to be assaulted but it is not something that impinges on their operation or they can add value to, so why would they spend their time and effort getting involved? As this thread shows, the whole area is a minefield.

That was in response to so many who think it's purpose is to just say: everyone should be careful.

Which would be even stranger!

The majority of men are not rapists and don't need telling how not to be one! Those that are, will not be put off by a poster telling them not to do it.

That's not really true.

An awful lot of rape involves a man who thinks what he did was absolutely fine - or at least claims to think so - and a woman who didn't consent.

Very little rape involves a stranger with an evil face jumping on you in a back alley.

That's still not the majority of men though Jeanne.

I didn't say it was. Nor are the majority of women rape survivors, right?

There is nothing wrong with reminding women to be vigilant and remind them to protect themselves and their friends. Looking after one another and making sure when people are drinking in particular that they don't wander off alone.

It is not to do with moving the responsibility from an attacker to a victim but simply about reminding people to look after themselves and others in simple ways that can avoid becoming a victim. It is no different to me teaching my daughter not to walk down alleyways. I'm just increasing her wisdom and teaching her about risks.