To find this poster in a train station wrong?

[megadude]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

Ah ok, sorry I misunderstood glitter

I completely agree with you then :)

No, I didn't mean you, glitter; I mean the poster that said that people were determined not to see it as victim blaming, like they are willfully denying it and aren't enlightened enough to see it, rather than just disagreeing.

And absolutely, my actions would never, could never, stop a rapist being a rapist. They might mean it wasn't me that night. That's all I can do. I wish I could do anything to stop them raping someone else, anyone, ever, but I can't. It also might well still mean that it was me that night, if I met a rapist, and I couldn't do anything about that either. But it's perhaps marginally less likely, if I am in a group. I don't think the precautions would save me. Or anyone. But if they can lower my risk, even minimally, I might as well try. There are lots of times when I do have to walk alone, in the dark, in dodgy areas, because that is just how things are in my life, and I don't have any choice other than not going out, so I do, because I've decided that I'm not going to stay locked up out of fear. I don't think it means it is my fault if something did happen on one of those days, and I happened to meet a rapist.

And I haven't seen posters like the ones about the escalators or the tracks anywhere else but the tube - that's why I thought it looked like the railway companies had decided to do something similar as well, and that's what I thought the poster was about. Being drunk increases risk of accidents; high heels, floating clothes, all make it worse.

I agree that if the poster were about rape it would be bad, but just can't really understand why a train company would be interested in that subject. They're a business, they're not going to randomly put up posters about social ills. However drunk people getting injured in stations is potentially the problem of the train company, so they has an interest in trying to stop people getting pissed. Kind of doubt this poster will help but I don't find it offensive. I don't see women as disproportionately targetted by anti alcohol ads - all the drink aware ads on TV seem to be aimed at men for eg. And drinking is something both genders often do with members of their own gender- it's quite a gendered activity. So gendered ads don't bother me.

I can also see the point that campaigns that put the onus on women to be "the one that didn't get raped that night" are damaging because of the attitude that they foster more generally. I am not sure that this poster or others about safety and being careful and so on, are actually doing that, though. I think that these days many people are already aware of it being only the rapists fault and thus campaigns to increase safety generally are not automatically seen as fostering that attitude - there is a nuanced difference in the way things are put across - it's possible to say that "look, you shouldn't need to protect yourself because people shouldn't rape/steal/whatever other illegal behaviour, but given that they do, try to reduce your risk", without people assuming you are saying "it's your fault if it happens to you". Maybe that's a change that is happening over time, maybe campaigns in schools and media have given different age groups a different viewpoint, I don't know. Maybe it's just that people I come into contact with are less likely to want to blame victims that other groups in society, so it biases how I perceive information posters like that.

While comparing the safety of a human being to a purse left in a car is ridiculous - can I just say that it is also misplaced to run a campaign encouraging people to hide any valuables.

1. The way to eradicate theft - stops thieves. Then people can park and leave whatever they want in their car without having to worry.
2. The way to stop rape - stop rapists. Then people can enjoy a night out without having to worry about getting home, and (rightly) focus their concerns on how bad the hangover will be.

So - car parks should have signs up saying that there is CCTV and that thieves will be prosecuted. Railway stations should have similar signs - CCTV and any anti-social behavior will be prosecuted.

There, no victim blaming and focusing our attention on the actual problem.

How hard would that be? Took me less than a second to think of it. If only some advertising guru could come up with the idea.

The issue with comparing theft to rape is that you are reducing women to a possession to be taken or stolen. Hide your laptop, don't leave your phone on the seat of the car when you get out and lock your front door. Common bloody sense. You can't lock away being a woman, you can't hide your vagina in the glove box. Its just being a woman. Please don't compare me to an iPhone or to your car.

I can see why people have a problem with it, and casting all emotion aside, I agree.

However, will I be telling my girls to watch out for each other if they're headed out for a big night? Yes. Absolutely, yes.

If the worst happens will I blame them for being drunk, or dressed in a mini? No.

Make sure you tell your sons too.

What I'll tell my son isn't really relevant to that poster. It's about messages we give to women.

Only read the OP but I see these warnings as "There are bastards out there, do what you can to not make yourself vulnerable to them"

I dont see them as victim blaming.

It is hideous. Should be banned. I have no intention of 'taking extra care' than I normally would because of reasons we can't mention.

Why no posters about men?

Attackers will take no notice! They will attack regardless, so all we can do is advise those who are vulnerable to keep as safe as they can.

There are similar posters in gay bars btw.

It's not "victim blaming". It's a reminder that there are things you can do which might not guarantee your safety, might help prevent you being the victim of a crime.

Number one for not being a victim of rape - be born with a penis. It won't guarantee you are not raped but will lessen your chances.

It may be of no use to the op and may provoke a negative response but if it reminds just one slightly inebriated 18 year old that it's not ok to walk home at 2am on a Saturday morning and catch a taxi instead then the reactions of the older, clear thinking/sensible females feelings on the matter come a poor second. I want to see more of these posters in the areas the younger females in my family frequent.

theycallmemellojello Agree totally. Unfortunately I'm not sure Abellio Greater Anglia have much interest in whether someone gets raped after a night out. What they do care about is having to suspend services to retrieve people or belongings from the tracks, finding people asleep on the train the depot, cleaning up vomit from the upholstery or having to stop trains because some drunk has pulled the emergency alarm 'for a laugh, ' because all these things cost their business money! Anyone who has ever travelled by train in this country surely realises that the system doesn't operate on social responsibility and altruism.

Abellio are surely no more likely to run posters about rape than Sainsburys, Halifax, Pizza Express, Clinton's or any other privately run business.

If the poster was from the Police or the council then yes, I would take is as being about crime and victim blaming and would be roundly outraged.

Why are folk going on about 'why isn't there a poster telling racists not to rape?' News flash people!!! Rapists are criminals and criminals don't do what they're told!

You could have all the posters in the world saying don't rape people . Rapists know rape is illegal yet they choose to do it anyway

I strongly disagree with these ^^ above two statements.

There was a time not very long ago - easily within my living memory, and I'm 'only' 40-something - when it was socially acceptable to drink drive.

Lots of people were killed. The powers that be realised that drunk people behind the wheel were a menace, and a cause of misery.

Laws came to pass, and there was a concerted campaign to stop people driving under the influence of alcohol. A lot of people thought it was the nanny state at work, PC gone made, etc, etc.

But the concerted campaign worked - a sea-change was effected, and it because seriously frowned upon to drink drive, to the extent that very few people do it anymore.

People knew it was wrong and stupid, but they did it anyway, because they could.

But then they started getting the message that they couldn't. And eventually the vast majority of people stopped.

Why can't we at least try the same thing here?

I have no issue whatsoever with the poster in the OP - it's a sensible message. But it HAS to be told alongside a parallel message directed at the people perpetrating the crime.

Messaging the victims only goes as far as stopping this/that/the other person from being the victim. It does absolutely nothing to stop the crime.

Number one for not being a victim of rape - be born with a penis. It won't guarantee you are not raped but will lessen your chances. Sadly, there is plenty of newish research to show that this may such a clear cut case.

And there are vast swathes of the populous who have absolutely no idea as to what constitutes consensual sex, and what does not.

Including - but by no means limited to - people who have actually been raped.

I thought the poster had a 'be safe around trains - and if your friends are drunker than you then keep them safe too' message. The styling makes it look like they're walking along a platform edge.

I really don't see it as victim blaming. It's a fact of life that more women get raped than men. I can't be arsed with all the drama over a poster reminding women to look after themselves.

Some people on this thread must have amazing friends.

Most rape (as has been said) isn't 'grabbed her and dragged her into an alleyway' rape.

A lot of men (and women) think that a woman who seems up for it doesn't really need to consent verbally, or to be in a fit state to consent. A lot of men (and women) aren't taught about enthusiastic consent, and trot out lines like 'but she seemed really keen and what she has now is morning-after regret'. These men do not have horns and tails. They look exactly like other men. In fact they probably look exactly like the 'hunky' types someone mentioned upthread, that you might be chatting up.

So my question is, how do you people whose friends have the magic ability to distinguish these men from the other blokes out there find them? Can I have some? Do they use the telepathy for winning the bingo, too?

This really isn't about rape. This means "if you must get really pissed on a night out, please look after your friends, and make sure they don't fall down the stairs or onto the railway track or leave them to fall asleep on the station platform as it is inconvenient for our staff to have to call the ambulance"

And it's only women who do that shiz, apparently...

It's clearly saying - 'young women go out, get drunk and then lay themselves open to all sort of danger' and puts the onus on them to 'stay safe' without challenging the stereotype. It reinforces the idea that 'the victim is to blame'. How about a poster showing three older women in tweeds and 'sensible' shoes necking a bottle of gin between them... brandishing rolled up copies of 'The Lady'.. the poster w
ould say -Be afraid.. be very afraid..'