to leave my baby in the garden to sleep?

[SashaFierce99]

With three older siblings, it's difficult for baby to nap uninterrupted at the weekend/in holidays. She's just over a year old so still needs at least one long or two short naps per day. When her siblings are off we tend to walk/scoot/skate/bike to the park before her nap and she falls asleep in the pushchair on the way home. I then leave her in the front garden in front of the kitchen window and DCs and I paint/bake/draw in the kitchen so she's in sight at all times.

Today we did the above but there was a knock at the door ten minutes after we arrived home. It was a neighbour advising me that it's too cold and too dangerous to leave her unsupervised outside. I explained that I can see her and she's well wrapped up (full body vest, outfit on top plus jumper, double socks and full snow suit and hat) so she's fine but the neighbour kept saying I should take her inside. I politely declined and said I needed to get back to the other DC. She muttered about how I'll end up 'getting reported to someone'...!

AIBU to leave her outside?

I personally think you don't need to ask us all if you think it's reasonable or not. For all the risk averse reasons already stated I certainly wouldn't do it but if you feel it's safe enough for your child then why do you care what other people think.

Moreover, I would prefer social workers were being thorough and checking things which they believe could be symptomatic of wider neglect or abuse than ignoring it. If they find all is well then that's great.

onemagnum I genuinely don't do any of those things that you listed. I wouldn't leave my DD to sleep outside, but I wouldn't say someone else was wrong to leave their DC outside to nap. It's whatever you feel comfortable with.

Fair enough Salem but I suspect you will be in the minority if you constantly watch over your sleeping baby - unless of course you are sitting with your first newborn and I know I could happily sit and watch mine sleep for hours :)

Some people are more risk averse than others that is absolutely fine as long as the baby/child is well cared for and loved. I think people have been generally trying to point out that a lot of those fears really don't have a basis in reality and might just allow some parents to relax a bit. It's already been said though that you are the only person who knows your own particular set of circumstances and can make that judgement.

I can imagine the headline now:

"Sleeping Toddler stolen from Front Garden, whilst Mother and siblings played inside"

And believe me, you would be Public Enemy Number 1. Mothers up and down the Country would be slating you for neglect.

Because, what sounds Ok in theory, can spin on a dime, in the wrong set of circumstances. Imagine. One of your DC that's inside, traps her finger in a door/squirts paint in her eye (insert a thousand possible distractions). A person who knows your usual routine, could have that child snatched in under a minute.

The question is: Is it worth the risk?

For me? No. Wheel the buggy in to the hall, unzip the footmuff, lock the door.

Need we remind ourselves about Madeline?

Whilst not to get in to a debate, about the rights and wrongs in that case, let me remind you, that in the 70's, everybody left their babies and toddlers in their rooms at Butlins. Everyone. And a staff member would patrol the camp, and write on the board what rooms they could hear crying from. You wouldn't do it now.

Ok, I got a bit off track, but hopefully yswim.

Oh heavens above, what bollocks some people talk!

Blonde bringing MM in to this is crass.

MM was sleeping 150ft away, out of earshot so I think it's different than say me sitting near the open window doing admin or standing at the window doing dishes while pram is outside. Bizarre and random bad luck is always possible of course.

Stillstaying No it's not, it's totally relevant. Op's child could be taken faster than you could say Jack Robinson. It happens.

Op's child could be taken faster than you could say Jack Robinson. It happens. When was the last reported case of a baby being snatched from the pram from outside his kitchen window?

It's all about common sense and assessing risk.

The MM case was totally different but let's not go down that path.

Blonde - no it isn't relevant other than from the point of view of leaving a sleeping child indoors in an apparently locked room with 2 siblings isn't safe - unless of course I have the facts wrong and MM was actually snatched from a pram outside her mum's kitchen window in the UK.

It takes a fair bit longer than the time it takes to say Jack Robinson to enter someone's garden without being seen, reach into a pram past blankets and sleeping bags, unstrap a baby, not wake them up in the process, and exit the garden, again without being seen.

I haven't RTFT but I often used to leave my children to sleep in the pram if we got back and they were asleep. I would park them outside the kitchen window and keep an eye on them, and they were well wrapped up. (There is a lock on the side gate to our garden).

A child was snatched from the bath, in his own home, not that long ago (door left unlocked). Just because we can't recall a toddler getting taken from a front garden, doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. And for me, it's not worth the risk. It would take a few mins to wheel the buggy indoors and remove a few blankets, so that he/she didn't get too hot.

My reference to Butlins, was to say that just because something has been done a zillion times, to no bad outcome, doesn't mean it's risk free. And to me, no risk is acceptable, if it can easily be avoided.

'And to me, no risk is acceptable, if it can easily be avoided.'

I bet that's not true. Do your kids ever travel by car?

The most dangerous think we all probably do is drive with kids in the car. Humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk.

I used to park mine in their buggy in the back garden after a short walk to get them to sleep. They'd sleep for ages in the fresh air and wake up really happy. I could see them through the window, they were never in any danger.

Personally, I think the health benefits of being outside outweigh the possible dangers. Clearly it's not sensible to leave a baby unwatched in a front garden though.

OP said the buggy won't fit through the door unfolded, so wheeling it inside isn't an option

What risks you deem acceptable is entirely your own prerogative that is entirely true.

None of the examples given equate to what the OP and millions of others do.

There is more chance of you dying on your own toilet than being killed by a terrorist but that still makes people change their behaviour. Your child is at far greater risk being pushed in their pram along the road than they are sleeping outside under supervision. But it's entirely up to you what you do, it's not okay to scaremonger though.

Your child is at far greater risk being pushed in their pram along the road

Good example. I actually know two, yes two people who were struck by cars whist out with the pram. No serious injuries thankfully.

The worry people devote to the risk of abduction is particularly ludicrous. The chances of a sleeping baby being taken from an enclosed garden are next to zero. Indeed it seems that it has never happened. Yet people are still prepared to judge others as lazy or reckless for taking such a 'risk'. I personally judge people who do this - as innumerate and quite frankly pretty stupid. Fine to have your own irrational fears - like I said, we all do - but really not fine to start persuading others that they have any basis in reality.

onemagnum I agree completely.

pfb is 16 months and wont sleep unless she is touching me so I don't even have the chance to do those things

Can anyone remember days before central heating? I grew up in a mid terraced house with a coal fire and single glazing. At night in winter we went to bed in pajamas and a duvet. Woke up every day alive and unfrozen.

So if your babies slept outside every day, are you taking them out of a nice warm house awake and plonking them into a pram/travel cot to fall asleep in all weathers?

When it was cold outside, I'd put them into the pram inside the house, and push it out into the garden - I warmed the bedding first with a hot water bottle, so the warm, newly-fed baby was going into a warm pram.

Normally by the time the pram was bounced out into the garden, the baby was starting to look sleepy. I tucked them in, kissed them and left them to nod off.

I never left mine to cry, inside the house or out. My mother told us that she used to put us outside and leave us until the next feed (breastfed, but on a strict timetable) even if we were crying - and I swore no baby of mine would ever go through that.

FRP yes, we had to chip the ice from the inside of the windows. We didn't have duvets, we had blankets and when it really cold we bunked in together and chucked our coats on top. Latterly I got a sleeping bag with blanket on top - no drafts! :)

So if your babies slept outside every day, are you taking them out of a nice warm house awake and plonking them into a pram/travel cot to fall asleep in all weathers?
No we try to get out for a nice long walk most days. If ds is awake when we get back its indoors, out the pram and playing or whatever.
If he's asleep he will wake up if I bring him indoors. He's dressed for several degrees below freezing and it's rare I can crack that many layers without waking him. In that case I take him into the back garden, park him right outside in the snow by the patio doors, make a cuppa and sit literally six feet away from him drinking my cuppa and watching the birds in the garden etc.
He's in view at all times, I don't go off to do other things in the house. When he stirs I'll try to rock him back down and if I can't he comes indoors.

I understand why people might not want to do it in unsecured gardens, etc. But I'm happy with the risk/benefit ratio of napping outdoors chez skip.
Each to their own, assess your own risk.