To be annoyed that nursery worker called ds sneaky?

[Twasthecatthatdidit]

DS, who has just turned 3, went into a nursery 6 months ago. He goes through periods of being settled and not settling there (eg periods of crying going in). We've also been told from time to time he has hit others in the class. He's also the only boy in his class too. The last few weeks have been v good since he toilet trained which he's taken to ( think he's enjoying the praise) but today when I went in to collect him, and was standing holding him in my arms, I was told today was a bad day and he was hit some other children and the worker called him "sneaky" because apparently he kicked someone under the table. Am I being precious to think a just turned 3 year old shouldn't be labelled sneaky, in front of him and all the others in the class? We had issues a few months where he was calling himself bad, and we don't know where that came from. Have a little niggly feeling that this worker is a bit abrupt with all the children, but also not sure if she's taken against him (eg last year I think he told her he didn't like her and she didn't take it well). Or am I being a bit precious ? Re the hitting, we had a chat with him tonight about not hurting others which he seemed to take on board, also previously I've noticed his behaviour deteriorates when tired, I wasn't here last night and I suspect he may have been 30 to 40
Mins late to bed (dh is a bit lax). Should
I say something to her about it being inappropriate language?

Doesn't mean the group setting of school is the best thing for them though. It's just the way we have come to accept as normal in this society. It's the cheapest and most efficient and all that, but school fails vast numbers of people, academically and emotionally.

I've read the research about aggression on group settings, and it was valid, but I can't think where I read it now. Also, I have worked as a playground supervisor, with children I also knew out of school. The kind of socialising children do in large groups isn't always healthy. ..

Which came first though? The aggression or the group setting? Aren't some people just naturally more aggressive than others?

Sure not everything suits everybody, of course it doesn't, but the research still sounds very shaky to me.

Your child is hurting others and your first concern is that his feelings could be hurt?

Milk, it's talking about the early years, particularly before 3, where research shows one to one with a carer is best. I guess I always saw my child ideally with one childminder who would see him grow up ( like what I had) who would have affection for him. Instead I've completely failed to deliver that, his childcare has chopped and changed. Now he's in a setting where he never seems to be talked about warmly, he often hates going in and I'm panicked about his behaviour and whether he's going to be the shunned bully. I think it hurts especially when you think real progress has been made and he's finally happy and behaving well!
Anyone now I'm still awake and sick with tiredness so I must put the phone down.

He did a sneaky thing, was called sneaky.

What is the problem?

Hardly as though he was called a little shit or something.

With respect OP I still think you are looking for excuses. The vast majority of children who start their lives going to Nursery do just fine.

If you are panicked about his behaviour then address that behaviour. Complaining about how he or his behaviour is described instead is more likely to let him become that "shunned bully".

Don't be like the mother of the kid that bullied my DS for years. Her boy could no wrong, he was unfairly labelled bad, he wasn't being dealt with kindly enough... but every day he was using other children as his physical, emotional and verbal punchbags. And yes, he could be sneaky about it!

Good luck with it all though - and I mean that kindly.

Milk, what age was that kid? Was he 2 or 3? But no obviously I don't want to be that mother! As ds gets nearer school age, it should be easier to accept no affection, rules etc - all you want from a teacher is basic kindness. I guess I just wanted more when ds is still so small. Nursery is fine for most children though of course.

Also if ds is now thinking of himself as "bad" the risk of him turning into the kind of kid who bullied your child is much greater.

I don't know..reading through some of what you've said makes me think you should remove your son from nursery if you can OP. Some time out. Are you working full-time?

They were 4 when it started - Reception. I don't think it was any label that caused the problem tbh!

Maybe time out from Nursery but plenty of playgroups where you can see his behaviour and work more closely with him?

It's fine to make lifestyle changes and be a sahm, you know. Even if it means downsizing. You just don't sound as though you are the type of parent that reacts well to nursery. (Your ds sounds entirely normal. But I think you would prefer to raise him yourself. Your guilt about working is colouring your interpretations of his experience, and seeking to justify that 'they' are doing wrong, not you, or your dh).

And that's ok. Really, it is. But you have to own it, and make changes that will let you be a happier mother.

I don't think kids who have just turned 3 are very aware of the difference between "you are sneaky" and "your behaviour was sneaky". Neither statement is helpful.

What is helpful for a 3 year old is feeling love and support from a carer as she helps him learn how to empathise with other children and how to behave in different situations. This love should come with high expectations, and very clear limits.

One problem with nursery (and also with school) is that parents can not really fix all the small things which are wrong with how their children are treated. This is also the GOOD thing about group situations, as it helps kids learn to cope with whatever life throws at them.

I sympathise with you OP, because what you really seem to be saying is that your son's carer doesn't really feel enough of a connection with him, you don't like her style, and she is labelling him (always a terrible idea).

When my nephew was three he used to often hit/kick/push my own DS who was about 18 months in a way that was very sneaky, so I know what she means. You could see him planning it, lining himself into position to do it in such a way that he thought no-one would see, or he thought he could make it look like an accident.

It's not nice to have to hear that your own child may have acted like this and it's understandable that it made you bristle, but I don't know what other sort of language she could have used to express accurately what was happening.

But he was being sneaky and naughty? I can't see what's the problem? You are being overly precious. Teach him how not to be sneaky, explain what he did and how wrong he was instead of trying to encourage this by getting upset over the truth.

I think your son might be picking up on your attitude towards the nursery, hence his reluctance to go in?
Nursery staff are usually really underpaid and under valued for the job they do, they don't usually do it for the money and instead because they love their job. Perhaps this member of staff had just had to speak to the parents of the child your child kicked, and they blamed the nursery worker?
The ratio at nursery for your sons age group is 1 adult to every 8 children, from the Early Years Foundation stage for 22-36 months, the development matters statements include something about understanding and cooperating with some boundaries and for 30-50 months aware that some actions hurt or harm others. Which from your posts, sounds
like something your son isn't quite doing at the moment.
If you are really that unhappy please remove your child from nursery rather than complaining about little things because it is really hard (as an ex nursery worker ) to work a ten hour day trying your best to care for 8 children, you've met all of their care and learning needs to the best of your ability, and whilst I understand you feel upset she called your child sneaky I think the reason you are so upset is because you feel guilty for taking your son there. So in all honesty im not sure the nursery could do anything right as you are unhappy with the whole nursery arrangement ?

Excuse me if that message made no sense! Heavily pregnant, new phone and unable to sleep !!!

But no obviously I don't want to be that mother!

Too late.

OP, you're pregnant and probably feelings things a bit more emotionally than you normally would, and all the more-so because you don't really like your boy being in nursery anyway. You cant see the woods for the tree's

I think I would go down the 'let's clear this situation up once and for all' route and I would have a meeting with the head of the nursery to discuss my sons progress or otherwise, as well as address any other concerns they may have about him.

No-one in a nursery setting should be able to tell a parent a child needs assessed unless its done in the proper manner, so bring it up at the meeting and say - X suggested he be assessed and I was wondering why she thinks its necessary, if its something we should be considering, and if he does need assessed why is it left to an assistant to tell us? Let the nursery people then sort it out and if your son does need an assessment at least it gets the ball rolling, and if he doesn't then you'll know it cant be used as a throwaway line ever again if he has a bad day. And not just because they'll probably be told - its not your place to say this to parents so don't do it again.

The kicking under the table - I think you would have been mortified anyway you were told but just as you have to take on board that he did it, the nursery also need to understand that there are ways to pass on news and there are ways not to. And to say a child is sneaky isn't a good way to go about things.

Your husband getting him late to bed - that has to be worked on.

No routine in the morning - again you have to sort that out.

Also, be honest with the staff as to the way you're feeling about your boy being in nursery because I suspect that no matter what nursery he went to you'd be feeling fragile about it right now. I also think its possible the assistant doesn't like your wee boy and is letting her dislike of him show when she mentions things to you, and perhaps him. Where did the 'bad' come from? So a meeting where you all end up on the same page re your son, what nursery expect of hi, what you expect from the nursery, will be a warning shot over her head and her attitude will have to change. Everything will be out in the open and there can be no excuse for anything else she says or does in a less than professional manner.

I think we have to get over the idea that all nursery staff are saints just as we have to accept as parents that sometimes our wee ones can do things that mean we are put in a position where we are left feeling very uncomfortable and with lots of thinking to do.

Also remember that was one word out of billions that day.

Agree with whois - he will be picking up on your feelings. When you undoubtedly looked upset that she had said he was sneaky kicking under the table, all the focus is on the response rather than the fact he kicked.

I don't think this nursery is a good fit for your child. It must be quite small if he's the only boy, and he may be better off at a different nursery. I noticed that around 3 was when the children in my DC nursery started (sadly) to polarise into boys & girls. It sounds like he could be a boisterous type boy in a group of quieter girls so his behaviour is looking worse than it really is. Having said that, using 'sneaky' is fine - kids can be sneaky! And along with the word 'bad' I think it's more to do with the tone it's used in rather than the word itself.

I don't think I'd be 'annoyed' - I'd be more annoyed he's the only boy! It's important to mix with both genders :)

Definitely we probably just have asked for a meeting before now, especially after the assessment comment, also just after Christmas he was getting v distressed indeed going in and my dh and the worker had a word about his behaviour which ended with her seeming to suggest we should remove him (then saying not to say she had said it). I called the manager to tentatively discuss his upset etc and she kind of waved it off saying he was pushing boundaries which all the children do at one stage or another.

Get a grip, it's hardly going to scar him for life and is more descriptive than inappropriate. Being physically attacked by another child could scar you for life though

I'll let it go re sneaky. I don't really think we can change nursery as said because anywhere decent will have no space before the summer, when we will probably have to change him anyway as this Nursery doesn't do part time, paying full time will mean less time off for me, so I'll need to move him for him to get his free hours (not until September, we're not in UK). He hasn't gone up to the 8:1 ratios yet, no room in that class til September. We might be better moving him anyway then, even if they did part time, & even though he likes the teacher, if being the only boy is a problem, do you think? Re the worker's qualifications, I understand she actually is a medical-type worker with children in her own country, there is a part of me that wonders has she been hired because of the nursery being impressed by this & doesn't have formal early childcare education so may not realise what behaviours fall within the norm? This nursery has low staff turnover so I presume the staff are treated well.

Honestly, I wouldn't move him because he's the only boy, he'll be more inclined to play with girls at school (which is something you don't see with small children)