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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel tricked and taken advantage of?

508 replies

OohMavis · 09/02/2016 14:28

I'm a cakemaker. Valentines is a busy time of the year, but last week DH's brother asked me to make a cake for his girlfriend, so him being family, I fit him in last minute with a discount, price was agreed last week.

He came to pick it up today but instead of paying me, he's told me to ask DH for the money, because DH borrowed it from him Angry and off he went with his cake.

I had no idea DH owed him money. It was for some tickets to a show they went to together which his brother bought on his card for convenience. DH just forgot about it.

AIBU to feel as though he's basically got a free cake out of me, and feel really bloody annoyed and tricked? I'm not going to be paid for the cake (our finances are completely joint, BIL knows this, it would be utterly pointless for DH to pay me). My time has been wasted. I turned down a paying order for him.

Just so angry!

OP posts:
3WiseWomen · 09/02/2016 16:43

If your DH still owes £10, please tell him to go and pay him.

And YY, if you DO take an order from him again, don't do special price, don't do special accomodation and keep it very business like (Like give him an INVOICE for it).

Cleensheetsandbedding · 09/02/2016 16:45

Op when I first started dating Dh, I asked one of his tenants to make my dd (not Dh dd) a giant cup cake at £35. She took it off his bloody rent money that was due in. Angry

flippinada · 09/02/2016 16:45

Why didn't BIL just ask for the money back from his brother instead of behaving in this underhanded way?

If he did and was fobbed off, why does that then make it ok for him to trick OP into spending time, money and effort on providing a service he had no intention of paying for?

Why is OP unreasonable for expecting someone to pay for a service she's provided?

He sounds like a smart-arsed cheapskate to me.

Grapejuicerocks · 09/02/2016 16:46

So how would that conversation have gone?

Yes I'll make you a cake at mates rates for £30
Ok can you off set it against the debt?
No, talk to dh about it.
Ok I'll get the money off him. When can I pick the cake up. Do you want the £30 in cash or by cheque?
No I'm not doing it for £30 now. I'm going to take a paying order instead.

Does this sound ok? It doesn't to me.

3WiseWomen · 09/02/2016 16:46

Holly if you have a business, is it OK to dip into the business cash to pay your BIL back?
I'm pretty it's not and would be badly seen by HMRC.

That's what her BIL expected from her. It's a BUSINESS. It doesn't matter she is working from home, self employed or whatever. You just don't help yourself in the pot for your (or her BIL) convenience.

arethereanyleftatall · 09/02/2016 16:47

I'm really really surprised by these responses. I read the op and thought it would be unanimous yabu.
It's a yabu from me.
If anyone is to blame, it's your dh for not giving him the money he owed him. If your bil knows you have joint finances, then he would have just assumed this was a sensible way of doing things, I don't think he needs to have been upfront, because it financially makes no difference to your joint pot.

LeaLeander · 09/02/2016 16:48

Those who think the BIL was well within his rights to secretly decide the terms of the deal, and that the OP's time, talent and cake supplies were what he wanted in return for the show ticket - rather than cash from his brother - what if the situation were reversed.

-OP's DH owes BIL $30 for show ticket.

  • DH shows up at BIL's house with a baked cake and says "here you go mate, here's the repayment for that show ticket you paid for."
-BIL says "Wait, I wanted cash for that, I don't like strawberry cake." -DH says "Too bad mate, value's the same, take it or leave it but we are all squared up now."

Or, say, the DH bought some random show ticket costing $30 and took it round to BIL, saying "Here you go, enjoy seeing Lion King at the regional playhouse, and we're quits for that ticket last year." The BIL says wtf, I don't want to see Lion King! and DH says "oh well, value is the same so I consider my debt repaid."

Or perhaps the OP sees a sale on socks and thinks "BIL is always wearing old socks, and we owe him $30, I'll buy $30 worth of socks and then we will be squared away for that show ticket." So she and DH drop the socks on BIL's doorstep with a note and continue on their merry way, secure in the knowledge they have repaid the debt. Who cares if BIL had a chance to agree to any of the above terms, eh? End result is the same - his household received an item of value equal to the amount owed by DH. Right??

ElderlyKoreanLady · 09/02/2016 16:49

To the posters saying people are failing to do their maths properly...

At the point where OP agreed to make the cake for BIL she a) chose to make a cake for family and therefore not take the opportunity to increase her client base and b) chose to offer him a discount. This was regardless of how OP was being paid. So mathematically, she'd be in the same position now if the BIL had chosen to pay in cash and recover it from DH.

I think that if the BIL was planning on paying like this all along then it was poor form for him not to mention it. Not so if he only thought of it afterwards...It's the pragmatic approach considering OP and her DH have joint finances because it was therefore a joint debt and the end result is the same.

I think OP is more annoyed that she didn't realise there was a debt. Her DH hadn't paid it off and she was unaware of this. So OP thought that she'd be starting at £0 and finishing with a profit, rather than starting at -£40 (for example) and actually just breaking even, landing her where she thought she was in the first place.

OP, if you have a joint account you both need to be aware of any debts the other hasn't made good on. That's the issue here.

diddl · 09/02/2016 16:49

"The thing is I suppose, he has got his £30 back with a £60 cake..."

That was always going to happen as soon as OP offered discount though.

It was sneaky of him I agree.

But I still can't really see the problem.

No one has lost out.

As soon as OP agreed to do the cake she risked having to turn down an order.

£30 is owed for the cake & BIL has decided that that can be paid from money owed to hin by OPs husband.

He's not refusing to pay!

AnneElliott · 09/02/2016 16:50

Bil has been underhand and cheeky! Those of you saying it's fine, would you have accepted OP giving Bil a random cake when convenient for her and telling him that paid the debt off? If not, why is this any different?

Xmasbaby11 · 09/02/2016 16:50

I'm not really sure I understand. Do you mean you'd have turned down the order if the money was coming from Dh instead if bil? Surely you'd have done the cake for him anyway?

I honestly can't see the fuss. Just make sure Dh gives you the money.

Lweji · 09/02/2016 16:51

At this point, OP, you could let BIL know, as you didn't have time to explain, that the discounted rate was already to offset the debt.
So, debt of 40, original price of 60, discounted to 30, thus offsetting the debt to 10. Thus leaving him now owing you 20.
Even better if you can pass the original cost as 70, due to the peak season. Which would leave him owing you the full 30.

But, still, no reason to get so upset. Or to think you've baked a free cake.

And certainly not for revenge measures (not you). Hmm

flippinada · 09/02/2016 16:52

Sounds fine to me. The OP is running a business, and she's not obliged to provide a service to someone at a reduced rate if she doesn't want to do so. Businesses do this all the time.

theycallmemellojello · 09/02/2016 16:52

Lea - no it's certainly not the same as offering cake in repayment of a debt! It's offering to offset one debt in cash (£40 for the theatre ticket) for another debt owed in cash (£30 for the cake). If anything the problem is that the debts were not owed between the same parties - OP and DH owed BIL from their personal account, whereas BIL owed their business account. But OP admits that in practice there's no separation, since it would be pointless getting the money off her DH (which she really should do for tax reasons anyway!)

Original poster
OohMavis · 09/02/2016 16:53

So how would that conversation have gone?

Like this:

Yes I'll make you a cake at mates rates for £30
Ok can you off set it against the debt?
No, talk to dh about it.
Ok I'll get the money off him. When can I pick the cake up. Do you want the £30 in cash or by cheque?
Either is fine, thanks BIL

I didn't have a problem making him the cake for £30, otherwise I wouldn't have offered. I knew I'd likely be turning orders down. I have a problem with being tricked.

OP posts:
Lweji · 09/02/2016 16:54

would you have accepted OP giving Bil a random cake when convenient for her and telling him that paid the debt off?
That would be very different from this. It would mean giving the BIL a cake he had never wanted. As it is, the op can get the money off her oh, or just consider the joint debt paid.

Original poster
OohMavis · 09/02/2016 16:54

If he told me beforehand and insisted on not paying me, I'd have said no and taken paying orders instead.

OP posts:
Lweji · 09/02/2016 16:55

You weren't strictly tricked because you didn't lose out money overall, as you stated in your OP because you have joint finances and your OH paying you would be pointless.

You can't have it both ways.

theycallmemellojello · 09/02/2016 16:56

Ok, so if payment is a problem, what is stopping you getting the money off your DH? Or you're saying that you would have expected BIL to not get his debt repaid until it worked for your business?

diddl · 09/02/2016 16:56

"Ok can you off set it against the debt?
No, talk to dh about it."

Well yeah, but all you need to do is get the money from yourhusband.

So no problem really!

OnlyLovers · 09/02/2016 16:58

Yes, OP, I was going to say basically the same about Grape's hypothetical conversation.

I don't think that's that hard to imagine or understand.

And I don't get, Grape, why you think the OP would have said 'No I'm not doing it for £30 now. I'm going to take a paying order instead' after BIL had said OK, he'd pay her. Confused

GruntledOne · 09/02/2016 16:59

I think people being snooty about the maths are forgetting the matter of tax. OP has a duty to put this transaction through the books, which means that ultimately the business will pay tax on the money she didn't receive. Therefore she's paying out extra for this transaction from which she received no benefit at all. Tax is her liability, not joint liability. It may be the case that, if her DH repaid the money that would be out of taxed income, but he probably doesn't pay tax at the same rate that she does.

Original poster
OohMavis · 09/02/2016 16:59

Would you do this? Serious question, because I can't imagine myself ever taking something from someone who's expecting payment, and telling them to get the money from someone else because they owe it to me. I'd feel like a prick.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 09/02/2016 17:00

This is bonkers. Your bil can literally have no idea that you think he's tricked you. Because he hasn't.

Grapejuicerocks · 09/02/2016 17:00

But that's so nit picking op. Bil knows you have joint finances. It's splitting hairs and I think you are being rather petty.
Sorry.

Anyway stick to giving mates rates at less busy times of the year. Good luck with the business.

Can we see a picture of the cake? Grin