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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Make up, boob job, internal dilemma and explaining it all to DD

104 replies

Ploppymoodypants · 07/02/2016 20:28

Hello, probably wrong section but posting here for traffic. I am currently having an internal dilemma I can't sort out in my head. I identify as a feminist and also believe that being a feminist means that other women can make their own choices, so my dilemma is in no way about judging others. Anyway I usually wear make up (not a lot, tinted moisturiser and mascara) and like to make an effort for nice occasions with clothes, but am equally comfortable slobbing around on the farm knee deep in muck. I am firmly of the opinion that people's self worth should not be attributed to how good looking they are. However I am really struggling to answer my DD (3) when she asks why I wear make up, without giving the message that what you look like is important... Additionally since children my boobs have shrunk to non existent and I would quite like a boob job but again how do I explain that to DD without giving a message that we must have sexy boobs to please our men/be valued? Am I over thinking it? Any advice would be helpful. Thank you

OP posts:

bodenbiscuit · 07/02/2016 22:43

If you want to have a boob job then have one. You only live once and it's nobody's business except whoever sees you without clothes. If you are unhappy with something and you can change it then why not?

bodenbiscuit · 07/02/2016 22:43

I had one years ago and nobody knows about it except people I told.

manicinsomniac · 07/02/2016 22:48

I have zero problem with women wearing make up, shaving, getting boob jobs, facelifts, liposuction, botox, permanent make up tattoos, tummy tucks or anything else they want to get done.

As long as the answer to 'why'? for all of those things is 'because I want to'.

I thought that was the point of feminism?

Twinklestein · 07/02/2016 22:55

I don't self-define as a feminist partly for these sorts of reasons

Presumably because you don't believe in the principle of equal rights based on equality of the sexes.

If you do then you're just being hypocritical. (Or afraid of being unfuckworthy).

kali110 · 07/02/2016 23:06

If you want a boob job, then have one.
Dress how you want to dress, not depending on what friends you are with.
I can dress very alternative some days, none of them dress like me but nobody cares.
I wear what i want to wear for me.

mulberrybag · 07/02/2016 23:09

I could have written your post but my daughter is nine this week and I have nothing left apart from skin - no firmness at all, just empty skin (from previously 32d to 30 a ) when I bend over they look absolutely dreadful and I feel very sad that they dent my confidence so badly. I can afford to get them done, I just have no idea how to explain it to my daughter, who sees me naked on a daily basis and would definitely notice! No answers apart from - do it while she's young enough not to answer to ?!

Twinklestein · 07/02/2016 23:12

Do women really base their self-confidence on the state of their tits?

How many men say 'well I'm feeling a bit low today, butt implants would no doubt chirp me up.'

FirstWeTakeManhattan · 07/02/2016 23:17

Do women really base their self-confidence on the state of their tits?

I'm fairly sure that despite your question, you're aware that yes, some women's self confidence is affected by the appearance of their breasts.

But 'women'? Not of all of them, no.

mulberrybag · 07/02/2016 23:18

when I turn over onto my side in bed they lie flat on my chest, they are literally skin with nothing left in them so yes I actually feel very much less confident when I am not wearing a bra because my "tits" look like they belong to my grandma and I am 37ys old

mulberrybag · 07/02/2016 23:21

And besides if my butt was saggy I could damn well exercise and do something about it, I wouldn't need butt implants. There are no exercises on this planet that could rejuvenate my fucked breasts

Twinklestein · 07/02/2016 23:23

Why not stop thinking of them as 'fucked'?

Caramelslice · 07/02/2016 23:27

I had a breast reduction and lift. My breasts are now radically different to before. My children both under 6 have not noticed! I get changed in front of them and chat to them in the bath - it's not registered.
I don't think you have to explain to a three old.
As to make up, I tell my daughter I wear it because I like the way it looks.

Lurkedforever1 · 07/02/2016 23:32

My dd is 12, and her entire life I've always been honest with any questions on my choices when it comes to my appearance. And the honest answer has always been 'because I like it/prefer it'. With the occasional work dress related question of 'because I've got a very important meeting and I need to look very smart'.

If you want a boob job for yourself op, go for it. Putting on mascara for others I would sneer at, but breast implants for yourself is just fine imo. I don't feel I want or need them at the moment, but if that ever changed I would have no problem telling my dd I was having it done because I liked them that way.

hefzi · 07/02/2016 23:32

Twinkle I said I don't self-define - that has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in equality, and everything to do with the things other women commonly conflate with feminism : including the right to hold opinions on other women's surgical options.

Twinklestein · 07/02/2016 23:35

What other women 'conflate' with feminism has f all to do with whether you're a feminist.

hefzi · 07/02/2016 23:39

Indeed. And one can believe in equality without choosing to attach a word with a widely contested meaning to one's beliefs.

Twinklestein · 07/02/2016 23:49

Its essential meaning is as I defined above. That's not contestable.

Should I stop calling myself an atheist because it's meaning is debatable?

What you really mean that you've been scared off using it by the negative characterisation of feminism in some quarters.

IceBeing · 07/02/2016 23:52

OP I think it is a totally valid thing to worry about...because when your DD is older and suffering from low self-esteem and body image problems (which statistically is more likely than not), you can go blue in the face telling her she is fine as she as and that her attractiveness is not the most important aspect of her as a person...but she will look at your example and see you don't believe what you are saying...because you had surgery you were so concerned with your appearance...you actually went and got your body chopped in the hopes it would make you feel happier....you risked actual death and disfigurement (tiny risk but not zero) on the altar of beauty.

I don't shave my legs, I don't wear make up and I would never in a million years take the risk of surgery for anything other than medical necessity...and when my DD is older and is suffering low self-esteem and body image problems (which statistically is more likely than not), and I am going blue in the face telling her she is fine as she as and that her attractiveness is not the most important aspect of her as a person...I will still probably fail miserably but at least I won't feel a hypocrite doing it.

Lillygolightly · 08/02/2016 00:07

OP - I have had cosmetic surgery...breast augmentation and I also wear make up, I have 2 DD's

Years ago when I had the surgery both were too young to really care or understand and my youngest was just a baby.

With my girls I answer questions that they have regarding make up and tell them that its because I like to wear it and it makes me feel nice, in the same way that when I braid their hair etc that they like it as its nice to feel good about yourself. I also explain that there are other things that can make you feel good, like achieving things at school, reading a good book or dancing around to a song you like and that feeling good about yourself should not rest on just how you look but on lots of other things too, such as being a good friend and a nice person.

Regarding my boobs they both know but eldest understands more and has asked me about it, I simply told the truth which is that I liked my boobs but they went away and I missed them so I had them put back for me.

I had a nice bust and after 2 pregnancies and breastfeeding I was completely flat chested which used to make me really sad about myself as going from a full C small D cup to nothing was a shock. Also with being slim I just looked like an ironing board, and all I wanted was my boobs back I didn't want to be Katie price or anything massive like that. I knew it would make me feel better and I could do it, so I did, and I did it just for me and no one else. I am so glad I did too, I don't wear low cut tops or really get in a bikini or anything like that...they just make me feel like me again, and I love them for that. Maybe that makes me shallow, I don't know, but to be honest I don't really care.

GarlicBake · 08/02/2016 00:12

I once told a pair of four-year-olds "Society has certain expectations of women's appearance, which are unnatural and ridiculous when you think about it. Because society prefers the feminine performance, it makes my life easier to conform by wearing make-up."

Their mother rang me up after they'd requested a discussion of this later on, pleading "Next time, just say it makes you look pretty"

I dunno regarding the boobs. Would you think less of someone having a body tuck after drastic weight loss? I don't ... but I respect them more if they keep the skin, or at least go public with it before surgery.

Lillygolightly · 08/02/2016 00:19

Also I think the overall and loudest message I would want to give my DD's it to do what you want to do, and do makes YOU happy!

I could be dying your hair bright pink - dying your hair has risks and people have died from allergic reactions etc. If you understand the risk and your happy with it and it makes you happy then who cares what others think, it's what you think and feel that matters.

The same could be said about tattoo's and piercings or sky diving/extreme sports and a myriad of other things that carry risks and that people have opinions on.

As long as my DD's understand the risks of whatever it is they want to do, and are doing whatever it is for themselves only and to make them happy then I am in 100 per cent support of that.

You only get 1 life, live it how YOU want to live it.

IceBeing · 08/02/2016 00:32

lilly but girls get no chance to decide what they "want" to care about in life...what they "want" to make them happy or be important to them. They get TOLD over and over and over again that happiness lies in looking good. And that they don't look good enough...and they never will...but maybe with the help of some nice products you might be able to make up a bit of the deficit...and make it to tolerable.

I don't think I will ever get past seeing an advert targeted at preschoolers with the strap line "everyone wants to look their best for the ball!"

No - it isn't enough for adult women to buy into this bullshit under the pretext of 'but I'm doing it for meeee' while the rates of teenage cosmetic surgery rise and rise.

80% of children aged 10 are afraid of being fat. AFRAID. The overwhelming majority of teenage girls hate some aspect of their own bodies. HATE.

Seriously we need to realise how fucked up this situation is and step up to the plate and show our children that loving and not hating your body is the norm.

kali110 · 08/02/2016 00:47

lily yes agree with your post.
If you want to do it because it makes you happy you should!
I certainly didn't grow up being told what to care about and am certainly the last to conform to society.
I grew being told i was special for who i was and that working hard would get me far.
I never noticed my mom shaving/not shaving her legs or anything like that
I don't understand why being a feminist means you can't change something you aren't happy with?
I thought it was making sure women were always given a choice and making sure women were seen as equal to men?

Lillygolightly · 08/02/2016 00:53

Ice

I agree societal pressures are there and we can only temper some of that with how we choose to parent our children. I put far more emphasis on my DD's achievements with schooling and sports etc than I do anything else. Fact is though, my eldest is at an age when she wants to express herself. At the delicate age of 11 she wears her hair how she wants, and chooses her own clothes and sometimes she wants her nails painted too. All a normal part of growing up really, finding out about yourself, what you like and what you don't etc. So I of course advocate her choosing the things she likes and wants. What I try very hard to do, it have her self confidence and self worth come from within. Things like does she think she is a good person, is she helpful, does she try hard, is she a good friend, can be trusted etc as things to value herself. When she is older she may also really like Revlon lipstick shade 99 and wear it because she like it and it makes her look and fell good, and I think that's fine too.

Do I worry that when she is 15 she might not like her body, think she is a bit fat or too skinny...yes of course I worry about it. I think many of us have worried about these things over the course of our lives. Is that going to stop any time soon? I suspect not. I do hope though, that the way I will have raised my DD by having her value herself on the kind of person she is rather than what she looks like will have more of an impact on her than what the TV or a magazine or society says. Likewise I think I have to be realistic and have to expect and anticipate that this will have an influence in her life, and all I can do is guide her through it and keep building her confidence in herself.

Crazypetlady · 08/02/2016 00:54

Having a boob job makes you no less of a feminist.

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