World Hijab Day

[Marzipanface]

AIBU to feel uncomfortable with this day and also really irritated at the lack of discussion over this event from a feminist perspective. There seems to be a wholesale silence from the Feminist blogs and papers I subscribe to, and I can't find any discussion on here. No-one wants to talk to about it.

Just that really.

Branleuse No-one is suggesting that Muslim women can't wear a hijab?

And saying it's a fucking headscarf and not a burqa demonstrates a lack of understanding around hijab and its symbolism.

You know full well it is the reverse and enshrined in Sharia and as such incorporated into the legal codes of many muslim majority countries such that non-muslims cannot hold certain positions, have different levels of compensation, are discriminated in custody issues, receive less victim recompense eye etc.

goodness

Branleuse, I'm still struggling to understand why you think people on here are objecting to the wearing of headscarves, as opposed to objecting to women being forced to wear them. For the third time, please could you identify where that has been said on this thread?

I don't feel conflicted about it at all.

The hijab, niquab and even the headscarf are symbols of oppression and submission.

I support the banning of them in schools, universities and in some other walks of life, e.g. courts.

Lotta they upgraded me on the way home.

Yup, I was that easily bought .

They never answered directly. I followed it up a couple of times but got promoted and lost interest.

I'd be on their doorstep daily with placards these days .

Covering your body for modesty is something we all do.

Yeah! Just because there are laws saying we can't be naked and we don't want to let our bits hang out in public, it's totally unreasonable for us to be critical of women being required to cover their hair because they are immodest to tempt men with it.

evilcherub Mon 01-Feb-16 21:41:31

Your post has sent a shiver down my spine.

Also, who is that is 'all suddenly faux concerned?' The posters on this thread?

"Yeah! Just because there are laws saying we can't be naked and we don't want to let our bits hang out in public, it's totally unreasonable for us to be critical of women being required to cover their hair because they are immodest to tempt men with it."

Exactly. Glad we are clear. Its the same thing.

You dont see hair as intimate. Most muslims do

www.al-islam.org/hijab-muslim-womens-dress-islamic-or-cultural-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/quran-and-hijab

Not sure if it is linked to already, but found this explanation interesting. Can't vouch for its authenticity or accuracy though, as I know feck all about Islam had to google what the hijab was as I get mixed up between the burqa and the scarf one

"According to the commentators of the Qur’an, the women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the two ends tucked behind and tied at the back of the neck, in the process exposing their ears and neck. By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears, the neck, and the upper part of the bosom also."

i think youre a swivel eyed racist bigot if you think that its only muslims who have restrictive oppressive clothing for women and not the whole bloody world, and you cant see that mainstream british culture is also oppressive as is pretty much every culture, and yet here we are again talking about the terrible wrongs of muslims yawn

So - apparently, it's nothing to do with the hair at all. It's the ears/neck/bosom......

suddenly all faux concerned

In the late 70s, I wore an abaya and veil and watched grown men smash eight year old girls on the skull with thick sticks because their hair showed.

No 'suddenly' about it. I know exactly what I'm talking about. 'Faux'? The concern I felt for those little girls got me into serious trouble.

You'll have to try harder that that to shut down this debate.

i think youre a swivel eyed racist bigot if you think that its only muslims who have restrictive oppressive clothing for women and not the whole bloody world

I think whoever thinks that that is the issue under discussion here and thinks that criticising misogyny where it exists in any society is racism is spectacularly dim, frankly.

Do you know branleuse you've really pissed me off with your comment about racism. Right at the beginning of this thread, I posted that I didn't see many women wearing veils, niqab or burkas (I didn't even know what the difference was between them) and I was interested to learn what they signified for the wearer; what are they like for the person wearing them. I admitted my ignorance of the subject but was interested to learn. I've followed the whole of this thread and have learnt more, from both those who wear their head cover willingly and are happy to do so, to those who have experience of them being a sign of oppression. I've found the thread very informative. Until you came in with unfounded accusations and squeaking of "racism ". I'm fucking furious that you attempted to squash an interesting and well balanced discussion with such a cheap shot.

Or a misogynist, with a vested interest. They wouldn't have to be a monumentally thick social justice warrior then.

'I support the banning of them in schools, universities and in some other walks of life, e.g. courts.'

I get where you're coming from with this, I really do, but surely this would just mean that women would suffer yet again. I don't know what the answer is

There has always been concern. I worked closely within the Muslim population in a London dormitory town ten years ago. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the girls would take OFF their hijabs when men weren't around, plus the genuine fear and concern they admitted at the idea of being caught.

I can tell you my experiences of working with Muslim women of all ages if you like? In the UK. Far less frightening and traumatising than januarybrown1998's experiences, but nevertheless eye-opening on Women's rights within Islam.

Most posts are interesting and all are welcome - I don't support censorship unlike many muslim countries (and indeed atheist China).

By the way those saying it is illegal to be naked in the UK are wrong. There is no specific law against nudity and lots of us swim naked in rivers and the like. It has often been part of British culture (and presumably nations in the Middle East before they listened to the views of men inventing Gods to keep women in their place).

What is illegal is potentially breaching the peace so whilst you are likely to be fine at a nudist colony or beach or going for a naked swim when on one is around you might get in trouble if people are offended by your walking down Oxford Street with not a stitch on (and see the Naked Rambler, less his little soul and his problems).

OhforGodsake I'm sorry you are angry. Sadly there are always a few that come rushing in trying to stop any dialogue by calling everyone racists.

you cant see that mainstream british culture is also oppressive

Branleuse, please tell me why you believe this to be the case?

I have been educated in, lived and worked in over a dozen countries worldwide and I cannot agree.

British mainstream society is welcoming, curious, polite, broad-minded, tolerant, funny, self-deprecating and generous. It follows that their culture is extraordinarily tolerant and welcoming.

I fear they have recently been stifled and hidebound by the fascist left who are too insecure to allow open debate such as we are seeing here, and have planted the words 'you're all racist' into the mouths of babes, sheep and unsophisticated I'll-educated people to ensure that nobody questions thorny issues like Islam, immigration and culture clashes.

I fact, the Guardian have specifically said they will not allow comments on Glaslit articles on those subjects unless they have enough sheep to delete monitor difficult comments.

Your claim above tells me that either you have not travelled or read very widely or that you are living in the wrong country if indeed you live here. If you don't, then just take it from me that mainstream British culture is far from 'oppressive.'

You've given me an excellent laugh though, so thank you!

ill-educated. Hoist. Petard.

Hello Branleuse - I am Muslim and I deplore compulsory hijab. So do most of my Muslim friends - male and female.

We are Shiite if that makes a difference.

Anyone interested should check out the "My Stealthy Freedom" movement in Iran. They are on the dreaded Facebook amongst other places. There are plainly a fairly large number of Muslim women who don't approve of state-mandated hijab, and would rather not cover their heads. However, it's the invidious "expectation" of head covering amongst certain communities that troubles me just as much (and the obvious inference that uncovered = immodest). Would the women in Cologne have been molested if they were wearing hijab, I wonder?

Hello YoungGirlGrowingOld. That sounds a really interesting movement. I'll check it out on Facebook.

I am guessing the women in Cologne may not have been molested. Does this make me racist?

I knew plenty of young women who were really unhappy with the hijab, particularly in the heat, and complained about wearing it but felt they had no choice.

One girl used to get hassle from her younger brothers if they felt the scarf was inappropriate in design. She regularly wore really brightly patterned funky ones. Think mirrors and zebras.

I fact, the Guardian have specifically said they will not allow comments on Glaslit articles on those subjects unless they have enough sheep to delete monitor difficult comments

I saw that, it's outrageous. They shouldn't open comments on any article if they only want the ones that agree with their party line. They have a duty to allow reasonable discussion of all issues where there are genuine concerns, if they have a comment facility at all.

Personally, I would leave up anything that was legal and wasn't a personal attack on a specific individual. I don't trust the Guardian to necessarily know what's best for humanity and society, funnily enough.