To be sick of people slating Faith schools

[Jenga123]

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

In a way by saying this it is admitting there is a God, but a cruel one.

It has nothing to do with admitting there is a god, it's to do with realising how odd it is to argue that everything that humans consider to be 'good' is created by God, and everything that humans consider to be 'bad' is the fault of man. (Could you even get humans to agree on what is good and bad?)

Any why is it all about what humans consider to be good? A mosquito would consider a juicy bite on a human limb to be a good thing, the human probably not.

I don't blame God for anything because he doesn't exist.

But I don't understand how people who do believe in him give him
credit for all the good stuff and absolve him from the bad.

Bertrand but it's fine for atheists to put doubt in people's minds, as I'm sure they do. Threads like this are always full of posters denying there's a God and ridiculing (yes they do) the ones that believe. You don't believe, that's fine so it's fine for me to say to you equally, please don't ever impose your views on me and mine.

No, I'm saying that by atheists blaming God for the disasters it seems like they're saying there is a God, but they think him cruel

But that's you twisting words. What we're saying is that the idea of a god who created the things we like in nature, but not the things we don't like, is logically irreconcilable.

That said, the only time I bother giving it headspace is when people bring out intelligent design arguments in an attempt to prove that the Christian God exists. Because I don't need reasons not to believe in any supernatural beings.

Threads like this are always full of posters denying there's a God and ridiculing (yes they do) the ones that believe.

Yep, there are arseholes all over.

You don't believe, that's fine so it's fine for me to say to you equally, please don't ever impose your views on me and mine

How was she doing that? By disagreeing with what you stated as evidence?

give him credit for all the good things and absolve him from the bad
Because if you believe in God, there is no bad. God is absolute goodness. Why should there be any bad. There isn't any. So yes, all the goodness that is in this world I attribute to God. Why should it follow that because of this we should attribute all the bad things to Him. Nothing to me suggests it should.

Jassy when someone says to me "please don't impose your views on me and mine"I'm entitled to say the same thing back.

Because if you believe in God, there is no bad. God is absolute goodness. Why should there be any bad. There isn't any. So yes, all the goodness that is in this world I attribute to God. Why should it follow that because of this we should attribute all the bad things to Him. Nothing to me suggests it should.

Well, it makes absolutely zero sense to me, but it does to you and brings you joy and comfort so power to your elbow.

I only care when religious people think their faith gives them the right to special privileges, or the right to impose their faith on those who don't share it. That's when I start historical, scientific and philosophical arguments about why I think Christianity is wrong.

"please don't impose your views on me and mine"I'm entitled to say the same thing back.

Are we forcing your kids to go to an atheist school, or denying them access to local schools on the basis of Christianity, or having dedicated seats for vocal atheists in the House of Lords?

No? I think you're safe from the imposition of beliefs (or the lack thereof) then...

Btw I haven't given any evidence. How easy it is for atheists to demand proof of God knowing that isn't going to happen, then because of this think they've won the argument. You all continuously ask for evidence. Let's turn it round, give me a list of reasons why you think there is no God, without resorting to the old disasters, floods, famines chestnut.

I don't make the rules jassy about schools.

How easy it is for atheists to demand proof of God knowing that isn't going to happen, then because of this think they've won the argument.

Where did that happen?

You all continuously ask for evidence.

Nope. I think what was said was that people hadn't seen any evidence that convinced them. Your suggestion of the human eye was refuted by some people, as was the existence of good things as evidence or proof.

That's not the same as demanding evidence. You go on and believe what you like. Just don't expect others to do likewise; or treat your belief system as the default, or expect special privileges denied to others due to those beliefs.

For that, I think it would be reasonable to have a discussion about whether you were right or wrong.

You shouldn't complain about people twisting your words when you're so keen on doing it to others.

Let's turn it round, give me a list of reasons why you think there is no God, without resorting to the old disasters, floods, famines chestnut.

Why is this exam question only being set for your god?

If you did make the rules about school, dawn, what would they be? Would you reserve as many places for children of Christian faith in schools despite the fact that families who self-identify as Christian are far fewer in terms of percentages than the numbers of school places currently available for Christians?

I used the miracle of the human eye as one example of a Divine Creator. If someone like Darwin was blown away by the awesomeness of the eye it amazes me that people on here will try to trivialize it as if it's nothing of importance.

My DS went to A faith school purely because it was rated outstanding.
We are not religious. The school was CofE and never rammed god down anyones throat. It was a lovely school with a great ethos.
I did go to church for a while before to get him in. After that i stopped going. Im not ashamed either. I wanted the best for my son. There was also a catholic school next door which was also government funded like the CofE one. I dont know what the problem is and why some people saying they should be banned. I think they have a way of teaching which teaches kids to think of others and be kind. They are definitely not 'God Squadie'.

I don't make the rules jassy about schools.

My point was that no one is trying to impose their beliefs on you. Disagreeing with your statements isn't an imposition of beliefs.

Compulsory acts of collective worship, dedicated seats for clerics in the legislature and significant numbers of special Christians-only schools in the state sector, that disadvantage other children, or Christian schools being the only state option for some kids, on the other hand...

That's why I favour secularism. All beliefs and lack thereof treated equally.

Between when I stopped being a Christian and when I moved to the UK, my atheism was almost a total non issue - in a country with a higher proportion of churchgoers. It's bizarre how much more present religion is in people's lives here, whether they want it or not, and the education sector seems to be the worst manifestation of this.

www.goodreads.com/quotes/93641-to-suppose-that-the-eye-with-all-its-inimitable-contrivances
This is what Darwin said, yet some on here apparently aren't that impressed.

Flat, for me the problem is that the system is outrageously unfair, and particularly stacked against the kids whose parents can't or won't jump through hoops. You were engaged enough in the system, and cared enough about your kid's education, to know you had to attend church, which church to attend, you were organised and committed enough to attend for the required regularity, etc. You weren't breaking any rules of your own faith to do so. You aren't a shift worker who's regularly scheduled to work during the church service where they take attendance for the kids.

There are kids who have parents for whom some or all of those statements aren't true. I don't think those kids are any less deserving of an education at a decent local school than the kids whose parents have chosen to do those things.

It's possible to be blown away by the awesomeness of pretty much anything in nature without needing to believe that it was therefore created by a supernatural being, rather than evolving through an extraordinary series of chance happenings.

Which is, after all, what Darwin was saying in the passage you quoted.

Again, you're twisting people's words. Why is that? No one said that the design of the eye was passé, simply that it wasn't perfect - quite flawed in some ways - and that the imperfections made some sense in evolutionary terms.

.

www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=1412
Why not accept it for what it is and not pick holes in it. If minds far cleverer than ours are impressed it's rather arrogant that we aren't also.

Jassy what exactly are the imperfections, obviously not including diseases of the eye and short sightedness etc.

Sweetie, why are you insistent that others accept your beliefs, and the reasons for them? Why is it so important to you?

Many minds are impressed by what exists. The explanations for that differ, and you find different arguments compelling to those I find compelling.

That's fine. It's only if you're trying to present it as 'evidence' (which you did, I went back to check), and tell people that they 'have to believe' something or 'accept what is' (when there's no evidence that it 'is'), that those who disagree with you are going to say 'er, no. I find another explanation much more convincing.'

You have faith. Embrace it. Accept that others don't share it, that those people are just as good and worthy of life's advantages as you, and move on.

Jassy what exactly are the imperfections, obviously not including diseases of the eye and short sightedness etc

Is this another one of your exam questions where you set parameters that suit your argument but refuse to discuss why you've set those constraints, or answer questions about them?

Jassy I could very well ask you the same question. I've found that in general, not necessarily you, but atheists get annoyed and a bit angry at believers. I do accept that others don't have my beliefs and it's not that important to me but as they say, it takes two to argue. You could just as easy leave me alone to my beliefs as I could yours. So let's agree to disagree, no hard feelings.

No but if you say there are imperfections I'd just love to know what they are.