To be sick of people slating Faith schools

[Jenga123]

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

In practice, lots of parents go private to avoid the less popular schools (or even to avoid a state option altogether, even though they applied) so all children get placed in the end. However, I knew people 5 years ago who did not get offered a reception place at all until literally a day or two before term started in September. It was unimaginably stressful (and yes, they were perfectly prepared to accept less popular schools, they just didn't get an offer).

So there are children not being offered a place at state schools at all in London?

My borough is short 200 reception places each year. They rely on a lot of parents panicking after getting no offer, or an offer of a school an unreasonable distance away, and going private I think.

We get a lot of people from the neighbouring county (not London borough) coming to our faith schools. A CofE friend says there are a number of people at her church who go to that specific church so they can get their kids into the faith school that is close to our very popular train station (express service to London).

In reality, my son will probably end up with the offer of a school at the other end of the borough at some point before the beginning of September, though very likely nothing on offers day. That's unfortunately a completely impractical distance for people who work and have other kids. Plus, I'm not sure my kid should have to spend up to 90 minutes a day in the car just to go to school.

If we don't get the failing faith school down the road (hoping the faith-fakers have been dissuaded by the poor Ofsted, and that there aren't too many siblings), we rely on the borough somehow finding space for another bulge class (local schools are already carrying a couple on a more or las permanent basis) or getting up to our necks in debt for private school.

The EFA placing the free school planned for down the road in another part of the borough entirely has been the last nail in the coffin. We all thought we had that as a backup option as it was meant to open this September.

That sucks Jassy.

But I guess you are just "bitter".

Yeah. Quite amusing, isn't it?

I've been against faith admissions since I learned they existed, before I had kids. Unfortunately the situation where I live has got so extreme in recent years that it's moved from 'general problem' to 'my problem'.

We also have a free school issue. A school was supposed to be opening in a part of the borough where many children do not get places on offer day. They were unable to find a cheap enough site (crazy property prices and competition from commercial firms) and so the free school has opened in the one part of the borough where people do get offers, though some offers are from schools they wouldn't have picked (quite frankly luxury compared to other parts of the borough where lots of homes fall into black holes as many catchments are well under 500m). The eventual location of the free school, once building work has been completed, is right next to a VERY busy dual carriageway red route about two miles from where the places are actually needed. ONE child has accepted a place from the area local to the eventual location of the school. The playground is apparently going to be in a cage on top of the roof. There are thirteen children currently enrolled in this school though it was meant to be opening with sixty. Parents do not want to send their children to a school where they will be breathing in pollution constantly and have no adequate play area, quite understandably. Had it been able to open in a sensible place, no doubt they would easily have got sixty children to enrol.

Bloody hell, Ambroxide, that's even more bonkers than our one.

This free school experiment is working out well, isn't it? 'You need more schools because demand for property where you live has skyrocketed, they've built lots of new flats and there are loads more kids. But that demand has increased property prices too much so... no school for you.'

Our newest free school (secondary) is actually now opening in the NEXT borough because it can't secure land here (all sold off for luxury housing). It will open between two existing schools, in an over-provided area. The other new secondary in the borough is a Catholic school, which imports children from other boroughs, while 'our' children travel out...

dawnviews

You would say 'it's the Christian thing to do' to non-Christians? The phrase implies that good deeds are the sole preserve of Christians. I would never use that phrase.

As for Christian charities donating to conflicts around, you forget an important aim of the charities - to spread Christianity to countries all over the world and convert as many people as possible. The US has given billions to faith-based charities that have this aim.

Look at evangelical Christians flooding Iraq during the war on Iraq to convert citizens. Resistance became violent and made life for existing Christians difficult.

I'm late to this thread but jeez this makes my blood boil. As it happens I believe in a secular state period. But, this aside, faith schools, funded by the majority, buy extra choice for a minority. How about if non-faith schools had admissions criteria that excluded those of faith? Oh, wait, that would be called discrimination.

So, just to paint you a picture, if my only child doesn't get in to his catchment school, and there is a good chance he won't because of sibling priority, he then won't get in to any of the other schools in a five mile radius because we don't meet their religious section criteria. Reading the criteria they are allowed to set made me veer between anger and bemusement that this is allowed in this day and age.

Devora I've heard similar as well - closing down a (needed) local community primary to make way for a new free secondary (where secondary places are not needed).

It's nuts.

Devora and Jassy, you are both close to where I am (Richmond), I think. The situation round here is insane. I cannot see how they can possibly fix it. And as you say, meanwhile they build more and more and more flats, many to be occupied by people with children.

leelu66 who would give a damn what Christian aids motivations were if you were in a desperate situation in a war torn country. So what if they wanted to convert you. If I was in that situation I'd be more than happy to convert, and with very good reason too. At the end of the day they're doing a hell of a lot more good than harm. They risk their lives. They should be applauded for the often thankless work that they do.

That's exactly it, Ambroxide (yes, I'm in Kingston - the bit with the good train link and large station car park).

No shortage of 2 and 3 bed flats going up nearby. Just no provision for schools or medical services to match.

In actual fact "it's the Christian thing to do" is not an expression I would use. Rather "it's the right thing to do", but we'd go on forever if we started dissecting and analysing expressions that have been used for hundreds of years. Where would it end.

If I was in that situation I'd be more than happy to convert, and with very good reason too.

So if you'd been starving or bombed out of your home, you'd happily give up your faith because a Hindu gave you some food or clothes?

Um.

Dawn, I didn't say charities don't do a good job. Your obsession with Christian aid is weird, since Oxfam is a bigger charity than CA and also there are many charities from other religions and non-religious charities.

And yes, I think it is crappy to expect people to convert in return for aid. Aid should be given because we're all human beings, not because we want to change people's religion. That's more self-serving than selfless.

Jassy, I don't think dawn ever expects to be helpless in a war torn country, so it's easy for her to say she would convert (to Christianity, anyway).

What would you do if he doesn't, Lozster? Would you have to travel outside your catchment area?

There are countless charities in the world, all - or most - doing incredible things. Only a fraction of them are Christian.

Is Macmillan, for example, a Christian charity? I don't know.

I wouldn't be at all happy to convert to Christianity or any other religion in exchange for aid (or schooling). And I haven't. It should not be an issue or an expectation. Would you be happy to say you were an atheist in exchange for such things, Dawn? If you would, your faith is nothing more than a convenient excuse to gain privilege at the expense of others.

Leelu, true. Actually I have more time for Christian Aid than for some other religious aid organisations as at least CA doesn't have evangelism as one of its stated goals. But as you say, a bit bizarre to speak as if relief and aid is dominated by faith organisations when Oxfam, Save the Children and the Red Cross (and others) exist. The DEC isn't solely or even mainly made up of Christian organisations...

dowager I hope he gets in to the village school which is in catchment. We are not in catchment for any others. Going out of catchment takes us miles as we are, in effect surrounded by faith schools which are not undersubscribed so would exclude us on their faith criteria. I chose this village based on the non-denominational catchment school but may find myself scuppered by in and out of catchment sibling priority. As a pp said there seem to be a lot of people on here who live in areas with lots of schools and availability who don't get why having a third of schools with faith restricted intake creates a problem. I don't want my 4 year old to have to commute across a county to get to school.

dawn

but we'd go on forever if we started dissecting and analysing expressions that have been used for hundreds of years. Where would it end.

Would we go one forever? I'm not sure. What other phrases were you thinking of?

It's interesting that the 'we'd go on forever if we started this' argument is so similar to the OPs argument that life is unfair, deal with it. Both arguments want people to accept the status quo and not try and change things.

Lozster, fingers crossed for good news in April. The waiting is awful, and DS keeps asking where he'll be going to school as lots of his pals are taking about it.