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Original poster

To be sick of people slating Faith schools

999 replies

Jenga123 · 30/01/2016 15:09

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 20:26

(That said, I'm against any schools being allowed to select on faith and discriminate in recruitment based on religion, and that includes the 1% of faith schools that aren't Christian.)

dawnviews · 01/02/2016 20:27

Sashh so I take it by that that you mean out of all the religions in the world that it is only Christians who give you cause for concern? Really??

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 20:29

Dawn, are you still running the 'other religions do bad things, so mine should get to as well' argument?

Micah · 01/02/2016 20:37

What should schools be allowed to select on?

They have to select on something...

dawnviews · 01/02/2016 20:40

I haven't said that at all Jassy I've made a perfectly reasonable observation. I accept that I'm not going to get a reasonable response, hence your post which doesn't apply to what I've said.

Floisme · 01/02/2016 20:41

I think they should select on what football team you support.

It makes just as much sense as selecting on faith.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 20:42

Based on what? I can't see what Sashh has written that led you to make that comment. Honestly. I went back and read it three times to make sure. Can you explain what I've missed?

From my perspective I have lots of problems with pretty much all religions, many much bigger than the problems I have with Christianity. That doesn't make Christianity immune from criticism, though, and criticism of the religion is not the same as criticism of people who follow it.

Itsmine · 01/02/2016 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Micah · 01/02/2016 20:45

Seeing as football teams are closely linked to religion, youre probably right...

Would the premier league invest as much as the catholic church though? I think the pope is richer, although im not sure who would be the least corrupt...

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 20:46

They have to select on something...

Lotteries within defined catchments so no kid has to travel too far, with an element of demographic smoothing/quotas?

Distance, but with quotas for kids on FSM that match the nominal catchment?

A system that says if that if a child has missed out on their top 3 or 4 preferences for whatever reason (be it distance, faith, whatever) they get priority at their 4th or 5th choice rather than being shoved into a school miles away because they're at the back of the queue everywhere?

There are lots of systems that are much better. Not perfect, but I'd like to take the inequality out of the system where I can.

dawnviews · 01/02/2016 20:48

the last line of her post Jassy,you can't have missed it.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 20:51

Or, more likely community schools with optional religious activities that only differentiate from others by different coloured jumpers. But don't let that stop your hysterics over generalisation

Which bit was hysterical? It wasn't my intent and if something I wrote came across that way.

It's clear that some people on this thread feel a sense of grievance against the privilege Christians receive in school admissions, rightly or wrongly. Me, I think Christians are making the most of a discriminatory system that works in their favour, I can't be sure I'd do differently in their shoes. We all want what's best for our kids.

But where a sense of grievance exists, then that can cause greater problems.

And whatever happens within those schools - and I'm sure some are entirely benign as you describe - the fact that some children are excluded from attending because they are not of the right faith hardly fosters a sense of togetherness and integration.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 20:55

the last line of her post Jassy,you can't have missed it

What, where she pointed out that Christian is used as an adjective to describe positive behaviour in a way that 'Jewish' or 'Muslim' isn't? It's an historical quirk of our language - I thought that's what she meant. We don't say 'that would be the Jewish thing to do' or 'that's not very Muslim behaviour'. No idea what happens in countries where those are the majority faiths.

Did you take it as her saying she has no problems with other religions? I didn't read it that way at all.

dawnviews · 01/02/2016 21:20

Ok maybe I interpreted it a different way. But people saying "it's a Christian thing to do" or something like that.....surely that doesn't offend people. I mean, where would we draw the line, rewrite the whole English language. Let's face it everyone can find something offensive in practically anything.

redstrawberry10 · 01/02/2016 21:24

I think it's fine to slate a system that needs a special exemptions from non-discrimination laws.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 21:29

Dawn, the bit where that sort of statement crosses a line for me is when something that's good is described as Christian with the implication that it's only good because of Christianity.

So generally good values being described as 'Christian values' can be problematic, when it's used in a way that implies those values are exclusive to (or better in) Christianity.

But the flip side of people saying 'that's a Christian thing to do' is that it then opens the field up to suggestions that certain behaviours aren't very Christian.

I still don't see how that's passing comment on any other faith, though.

LynetteScavo · 01/02/2016 21:38

My DC go to catholic schools and if the admissions criteria were abolished it would make absolutely no difference, except maybe some children would be offered a place in reception when they didn't want it, rather than having bulge classes at other schools.

I sometimes think I live in a parallel universe....only half the DC at DDs school are catholic. And most of the catholic children are also Polish. About 50 % of DC are from a wide variety of backgrounds.

It bemuses me that there are any state faith schools, other than CofE, but complaining about your taxes paying for someone else's child's faith education is just funny. Grin

redstrawberry10 · 01/02/2016 21:44

It bemuses me that there are any state faith schools, other than CofE, but complaining about your taxes paying for someone else's child's faith education is just funny.

it's not funny in London, where the faith criteria is often used. There are parts of London that many people simply can't live because there only chance at a school is a faith school.

Furthermore, discrimination is just not funny. We don't allow employers or business to do the same thing 1/3 of our schools do.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 21:51

It bemuses me that there are any state faith schools, other than CofE, but complaining about your taxes paying for someone else's child's faith education is just funny

It's particularly amusing when your child can't get into any local schools because of the concentration of faith schools and the number of people driving their kids in from out of the borough to attend them. I often can't sleep for laughing.

(We are also blessed with a very popular commuter hub train station. Pure coincidence that our faith schools are the most popular in the borough.)

LynetteScavo · 01/02/2016 21:58

So there are children not being offered a place at state schools at all in London?

dawnviews · 01/02/2016 22:01

Jassy I think expressions like "it's a Christian thing to do" are quite justified given what Christian organisations do around the world. Christian Aid goes to any war torn country in the world and give enormous help and assistance to people affected by war, more so than any other religion. I can't think of any other religion that does more.

LynetteScavo · 01/02/2016 22:02

Ah, I see people are bitter because they want their DC to go to a faith school and they can't get in.

Sorry, I was missing that.

redstrawberry10 · 01/02/2016 22:09

So there are children not being offered a place at state schools at all in London?

where you got that from I have no idea.

Ah, I see people are bitter because they want their DC to go to a faith school and they can't get in.

nope. Just want people of all faiths or none to have equal access to schools. That silly equality stuff.

Ambroxide · 01/02/2016 22:10

So there are children not being offered a place at state schools at all in London?

Yes. I think there were 175 or something without reception places in my borough last year. The faith schools are stuffed full of parents who started reading up on the admissions criteria before their children were born. Seriously. Someone in my NCT class started talking to me about schools when our children were about -2 months old. As in Not Yet Born. I was completely gobsmacked.

JassyRadlett · 01/02/2016 22:11

Ah, I see people are bitter because they want their DC to go to a faith school and they can't get in.

No, you're still not getting it - try again.

Some people would like their kids to go to any school. But faith schools have distorted the catchments so badly that it's
near impossible.

Explain to me again the humour inherent in religious discrimination against children and teachers? I missed it.