AIBU to be disappointed that not every ( active ) member of MN has not taken part in the Olympic committee's trans policy poll thread?

[SurferJet]

It would take two minutes & you have 3 choices - support, protest. abstain.

What's stopping everyone taking part?

I just dont understand why some want to make this a mumsnet campaign start your own petition if it is so important I am sure there is somewhere else that your voice can be heard

Me?

My issue is exactly as I have stated it. I do not think that trans women should be able to compete against women unless they meet the same gender criteria as women. That there needs to be more thought and research into the real and perceived advantages of having been born/trained/in competition as a man; that Title XI should not be used as a toll to force the issue, etc etc.

I would hesitate to allow trans men or women to compete, despite seeing the value in Title XI. Just as I would hesitate to fully assimilate self identified men/women into traditionally/socially male/female arenas, for reasons I have already given.

And I am well versed in the testing of athletes having taught it for decades and taken part in it for a similar period. So I may have a slightly different perspective than you might have assumed.

I just dont understand why some want to make this a mumsnet campaign

I don't - FB groups have been set up as a result of these threads to campaign individually & collectively. But it's great that we have MN to discuss the issue.

So loads of (mostly) women who don't give a shit about other women.

So there we have it. Just as pp have said. Trying to guilt bully posters into doing something.

Not on.

Some don't want to do it. End. Of.

I can understand why suffragettes were as angry with passive women as they were with men.
Oh do fuck off. This is an issue that affects a tiny minority of women. It's not exactly a life or death issue which impacts on the daily lives of millions of women across the world like the right to vote.

have ignored this MN bubble. and the mumsy attitude of the OP.
A universal survey, fine. Lobby the IOC, fine. MN isn't that important, outside some MN poster's heads.

"this MN bubble"

That's a very good way of describing it.

The MN bubble is very small, just a couple of threads. I see the very existence of this thread as an example of someone inside the bubble really not comprehending that others do not care as much. Or care in different ways. Or are already engaged in the issue, or are now joining in, with their sporting bodies.

This is an issue that affects a tiny minority of women. It's not exactly a life or death issue which impacts on the daily lives of millions of women across the world like the right to vote.

But it does impact on all women athletes, for whom those self same suffragettes won the right to compete!

So there we have it. Just as pp have said. Trying to guilt bully posters into doing something

No - I'm not interested in sport. I'm doing this for my children , my grandchildren & everyone else's children.

Just like I'd go out on strike to support workers up north who I'll never meet or know nothing about. The closure of their factory will have no impact on me today, tomorrow, or even in 5 years time - but it might have an impact in 20 years time or on my children.

Suferjet That's fine of you want to. It is the haranguing and being made to feel guilty for not doing it that annoys me.

Last time I checked this is a free country. People can chose to do it or not. No one should be guilt tripped into doing something they don't want to.

That's cool - really wasn't trying to bully anyone honestly.

Anyway - I'm out of here now, weekend is calling me.

Thanks again everyone.

I am going to hide this thread now.

The OP's self-importance is really grating.

Yes. YABU....just because an issue is important to you doesn't mean it's important to everyone.

Sport is of no interest to me whatsoever...Olympic sport or otherwise.

Compared to war, climate change, domestic violence, rape and sexual abuse, species extinction, etc I don't care one jot about the rights or wrongs of who gets some (to me) irrelevant medal for running quickly.

Sorry not sorry

Maryz
It appears to be a taboo subject for the mainstream media.

Perhaps most people are accepting of them, or it's just not an issue (at this stage). They are guidelines only, which would make campaigning against them difficult.

There are lots of things I don't give a shit about, that I ought to care about. It's no harm to get a kick up the arse occasionally, and have someone tell me I should care.

That's fair enough if that's how you feel but I personally don't appreciate being told that I should care about something. And especially not when it's something so niche.

I know some of the concerns focus on women only spaces and how trans people are going to encroach on that space. The simple solution is have single occupancy changing cubicles/showers for changing rooms. As for other women only spaces, how many men are trying to get in? And if they are, is it really such a big deal? Why do we assume that if someone has a penis they are automatically dangerous? (And I say that as someone who has been raped in the past so I'm not naive)

2 years ago I wouldn't have thought it was a problem, outside certain niche areas. But last year, in a nationwide clothing store, I was in the women's changing rooms when a trans woman tried to come in. She was adamant she had the right and the women inside were adamant that the did not. It caused quite a ruckus.

The manager was firm, she must be allowed to use the changing rooms. So in she came... and out went about half of the women already in there.

I wasn't too bothered, using non gendered changing rooms is OK, as long as the curtain/door is big enough. But it did strike me as an odd decision, the manager was more worried about a single trans woman suing than a handful of women doing so. Hence my earlier post about gender politics.

It's not so much that a penis is dangerous, more that, even when its owner identifies as female, a person with one has more perceived authority than a person without one. As a female without one I am not sure I like that, as a global policy!

Your last paragraph brilliantly sums it up Blanche. That's exactly the issue. Women's feelings don't count, unless those women were once men.

OurBlanche
But last year, in a nationwide clothing store, I was in the women's changing rooms when a trans woman tried to come in. She was adamant she had the right and the women inside were adamant that the did not. It caused quite a ruckus.

So who challenged the transwoman and on what basis? I can't imagine why or how it was an issue, especially with individual changing spaces. A corollary of not allowing transwomen in women's changing rooms and toilets is that transmen would be obliged to use women's facillities:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-31860346

A staff member, on the basis that she looked and sounded like a man wearing make up.

The changing room had 2 rows of cubicles with flimsy curtains. Women inside heard a man asking to use the changing room, which was quite full, and, when we all looked (out of surprise and nosiness) saw a man, wearing make up, carrying skirts/dresses, demanding to be let in.

The corollary is not lost on me, but as it is trans women making the news and trans men seemingly more quiet on many issues, I have no idea what they think.

Actually that's not quite true. I know that there are an estimated 3 times as many trans women as men in the UK, so we are bound to hear/see more of them.

I also have worked with 2 trans individuals, both trans men, and they were far more accepting of the difficulties the wider society had with the gender fluidity. They were highly active, rallied, petitioned, held and attended regular committees on trans issues, but they weren't as interested in making a public fuss.

Maybe they were wrong, were taking their traditionally female reticence with them on their trans journey. However, they had both had radical surgeries, had fully committed to being male, took voice lessons, were coached to walk, sit, communicate in more male manner.

Maybe, as I said earlier, I have greater reservations when a trans woman is more fully male, is less committed, is earlier in their trans journey. Why is that wrong? I would feel the same about a trans man in the same situation.

I didn't vote because I rarely look at any threads to do with trans because they make me want to weep and slam my head repeatedly into a wall.

Also, I knew exactly what the overwhelming response would be so didn't see the point. And I don't have an opinion either way. I don't think it's a clear cut issue. I remember the uproar a few years ago about Caster Semenya and her medal (although she's not trans but intersex) and I don't know what should have happened in that case but I did feel very sorry for her and the media backlash she got.

And to add, I'm someone who generally isn't very comfortable around men but I have no problem whatsoever with trans women using female changing rooms.

I very very much doubt a trans man who hadn't had surgery and didn't particularly pass as a man would feel safe and happy to use men's intimate sex segregated spaces. It's only the women who used to be men who have the sense of entitlement that makes them barge into female sex segregated spaces without any regard for the comfort or dignity of the women already there as their "right".

I'd never challenge anyone accusing them of being a man, even if I strongly suspected it.

And tbh I don't think I'd be particularly afraid of using a male fitting room as a woman if I wasn't chased out. There are no people in either with boobs or willies hanging out. Unless something happens in male fitting rooms that I don't know about.