Continuation thread re IOC/trans policy and related trans issues

[fidel1ne]

Also a plug for the FB group

www.facebook.com/groups/ATWIWS/

I've tried to explain this issue (and its related others) to Mr Doggers to get him to understand why it bothers me. He mostly looks at me like a confused Labrador and just agrees although it's clear he has no understanding. This evening I have shown him that You Tube clip of Fallen Fox and it's like a lightbulb went on. My teenage daughter is very into the whole "trans rights / gender fluidity" things that's so popular among her peers and I am overjoyed that it clicked with her too. As a keen participant and coach of women's and girls' rugby it's so important to me that she understands it's about so much more than her teenage experience can understand.

That's great Dawn. Sadly I think it will take more women getting hurt for this to get any media attention, or for it to be presented in anything more than a completely one sided way. Your DD sounds great. I feel for her, it must be so hard to see past it all to work out what's real, and what's right.

Well done Hadley and Janice.

And you "feel weaker", Kelly? By the time you transitioned, you hadn't been competing for what, 20 years? And maybe you are "weaker ", are you still stronger than a born woman with similar hours of training? Oh, and IIRC, Kelly has had all relevant surgery so her testosterone level is presumably as low as any trans woman ever gets...!

What is a woman?

MrPratchett made this face then, sweetly, looked concernedly at DD, who is tall, strong and comes from a long line of martial artists and runners. "What will happen to martial arts at the Olympics then?". I told him it's already happened but hopefully by the time DD is old enough to compete, they will have sorted this nonsense out.

Oneflew--do you have a link to the article on the FB page?

hmm..how much yelling about how our vaginas make us all so slow and weak in comparison to even mediocre men is actually a good idea?

I'm not sure this is the message we should be announcing in front of our daughters either.

From the pinknews comments "i used to benchpress 60lbs, now i struggle with 20lbs". How many women do you think can benchpress 20lbs? You being weaker does not mean you are the same as an actual woman.

Lots of "oh yeah, research has proven tw are equal to women". Not one comment on where the research came from. (plus i defintiely remember a research scientist on mn saying that their establishment actively avoids 'negative' trans research because of the backlash. Can anyone else remember that?)

Our vaginas don't make us weak

Our musculoskeletal structure, body fat ratio, lung and heart capacity etc etc make women in general less strong than men in general. It's hardly revolutionary to say that oh wait now it is

Well, my vagina makes me a less adequate runner/weightlifter as it is falling out, but then i dont think thats what you meant. Oh look, another advantage of male biology for sports (which could be minimised by better gynae medicine, but we're not there yet)

The Stephanie Davies article makes a good argument for women only refuges etc but the horse has bolted on that one - this Scottish rape crisis link refers to the equality act of 2010 (6 years ago) which makes it illegal to not let a transwoman in
www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/workspace/publications/single_sex_service_trans_guidance.pdf

What I do not understand is that if gender is in the mind, all the sports women I have ever met have been very competitive and want to to be involved in the highest level they can reach. They are involved in women teams as that is their level, they however would like nothing more than to be able to compete on an equal footing to men, gender in sport is their reality and not their choice. A family member is involved in premiership women's football and all the teenagers would love to be good enough for the male premiership. For them they do sport to be the best person and sacrifice much for this. The idea that any of these women would take drugs to reduce their ability would be seen as ludicrous and the sport would come first.

So trans women say "we have lowered our testosterone so therefore we are no longer men, we must be women, and as women we have no advantage over other women"

It's so basic isn't it? we're being asked to swallow the idea that all a woman is, is "not a man."

Makes me sick.

mummyusername

From your link:

Within this Act, only transsexual people are explicitly protected - that is, people who are proposing to undergo, are undergoing or have undergone the process of changing their sex permanently and therefore have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

That is one of the reasons why the ability to self-declare is such a bad idea.

Man and not man.
Those testosterone levels used by the IOC completely show that.

This is the problem Moonshine - transgenderism reinforces the belief that all women are is not men.

Yy :(

(Has anyone looked at the media requests area? )

Linky?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/media_requests
I may have spammed the journalists. A little bit...