Continuation thread re IOC/trans policy and related trans issues

[fidel1ne]

Also a plug for the FB group

www.facebook.com/groups/ATWIWS/

Can someone please explain to me why women with PCOS are being lumped in the intersex group? I don't get it, as they are most definitely women. My near relative with PCOS has 2 children that she sprogged herself. On what basis is she not seen to be a woman?

I would feel pretty safe in the loos with anyone from my badminton club of either gender. I don't really subscribe to the equation that

being in the opposite gender toilet = rape central.

Anyway I certainly now have grounds to challenge being thrown out of the club league for being female! Apparently some of the other men in the league 'couldn't perform to their usual standard with a woman on court' and hence I was asked not to play. Now I am officially gender fluid and can certainly compete as a man according to the IOC they will have to reverse that judgement won't they?

Women with PCOS are grouped as intersex (along with a whole bunch of people with other conditions) so that the numbers are large enough that transactivists can say 'look sex isn't binary really!'

That's really shit Ice. Some people really can't cope with the idea that sometimes a woman or girl is just as proficient as a man/boy, especially at amateur levels where the range of abilities is presumably quite large. You would have thought that most people would have got over the idea that being beaten by a woman/girl was so shameful you have to make up lies about under-performing on purpose.

Ice - please let us know how you get on with challenging this!

nooka
Women with PCOS are grouped as intersex (along with a whole bunch of people with other conditions) so that the numbers are large enough that transactivists can say 'look sex isn't binary really!'

Which transactivists have said this, and what numbers are they claiming?

Ice How is your club able to get away with such overt sexism?

I have PCOS, 3 DC, and most certainly am no intersex. I'm both female (have a uterus and have given birth to DC) and a woman (I wore a skirt yesterday, have shoulder length hair and am more snuggly than DH, according to the DC). How dare anyone try and take that away from me, surely me feeling female is more important than whether I have PCOS or not . Or do feelings only matter if you're born male?

not intersex.

Where does typing ability come into the male-female debate?

Who is lumping PCOS with intersex? That's insane.

disruptingdinnerparties.com/2014/04/08/take-the-red-pill-the-truth-behind-the-biology-of-sex/

This is where they are coming from. If you google intersex and pros - there are lots of answers and questions about it.

a very interesting read Bambambini thanks for posting

Re Bambam's link - Yes, generals differentiate around the 3rd month of pregnancy but I don't see why that's supposed to support the allegation that females with PCOS are intersex. They have female chromosomes, female reproductive organs, and despite a slight ovulation disorder, many manage to make babies like nature intended. So what is intersex about it?

Incidentally, the doctor who has pioneered the technique to detect sex during 12-week scans works in our hospital and correctly predicted the sex of both of my DC at 12 weeks. Apparently, fetuses of both sexes have similar external genitalia at that age and we detect their sex from "angle of dangle" - i.e. The angle of genitalia as measured against the spine on the ultrasound scan.

I meant genitals differentiate. Not so sure about generals.

Best comment on that PCOS article:

Hence whilst I fully agree with you that there is no such thing as two boxes that everyone should be expected to fall into, I think it’s tricky to argue that there is a full spectrum of sex, as the issues you raise with regard to translocations and other genetic complications may well affect genital development but don’t necessarily alter the gametic definition of sex

Gametic definition of sex - POW. Was that you, Cote?

Trans activists want to claim females with PCOS are intersex because they want to chuck actual biological females under the bus in their quest to be women.

I floated the idea with the work colleagues who play at the club...they all just think it was ridiculous the way I was being treated...but also think it would be ridiculous to be asked to be put on for games as though I was male .

So wavering a little.

I thought pcos was thought to be caused by insulin resistance?

"they want to chuck actual biological females under the bus"

While you are probably right, I really want to emphasise that there is no other way to be female but biologically, since 'female' and 'male' are biological descriptions.

I am probably boring everyone to tears with these frequent reminders but it is imperative that we stop dancing to the transactivist tune, talking/writing as if we agree with their "anyone who thinks they are female are female" party line. The term is female, not "biological female". They want to chuck females under the bus.

There is only one way to be female and that is biologically, since 'female' is a biological description that means of the sex that can bear young or produce eggs.

Feelings, gender, sexual attraction or lack thereof to whichever sex have no bearing whatsoever on whether someone is female or not.

Yes PCOS is linked to insulin resistance. It's madness to say it's an example of being intersex because it's not a congenital condition. It can be acquired at some point in the girl's or woman's life and a lot of people find it goes away if they lose weight or alter their diet/exercise in some way.
I went through a perfectly normal and unremarkable female puberty, had normal periods for years. At some point in my 20s my periods went haywire and I was diagnosed with PCOS. I made a big effort to be healthier and my periods returned and I conceived 2 children naturally, breastfed them for several years each etc etc Definitely a woman! I don't think intersex people can alter their lifestyle to make their condition go away.

That's one way of trying to argue transwomen shouldn't exist, Cote. I can't see any evidence of the 'chucking females under the bus' argument, unless you perceive that giving transwomen rights automatically erodes women's rights.

Of course the people known as "transwomen" exist. They're just not women and they're not female.

HTH.

I'm totally in favour of trans people having exactly the same human rights as everyone else, but that doesn't include the right to be defined as something they're categorically not.

Especially when the redefinition of the thing they aren't is actually potentially deeply prejudicial to those people who are actually that thing.

Clear as mud, yes?

PCOS = intersex: BULLSHIT.

I think at least this thread contains people being honest about their transphobia, and has made me realize how very far we have to go as a society.

the lady in who wrote that article had PCOS and seemed to be perfectly happy with her 'intersex' condition