Middling DD, private at Y5, and disposable income

[Arrowedheart]

DD is in an outstanding primary but is being kept as middle of the road in terms of sets - 'middle' tables get the same work whether in set 1 or 2) I've asked for the last couple of years how she can progress but have been told that's how it is.

I'm under no illusions that she may not be very academic naturally and that's fine. However I do feel that if there is no scope to move between sets, it is restrictive. There are 2 year 4 classes and no one has been moved up or down as far as I know.

I am considering moving her to a private school for Y5. We have visited and know ex pupils. She is an only child so no other kids to worry about. We have good salaries but a high mortgage. We would have about £1.2k left a month for food, going out, clothes, etc.

Shoot me down or let me know your experiences please

I wouldn't be happy with a primary school that doesn't have fluid setting. Too easy for children to get stuck in the wrong place.

Bedraggled. We would likely spend the money on holidays and general frippery as we spend what we have

In that case I would suggest over paying on your mortgage to reduce your term, and therefore reduce your disposable income spent on fripperies! Most lenders will let you overpay by 10% a year- of the balance, not your normal payment, so you can cut your mortgage down drastically if you just change your direct debit!

And if you overpay now while rates are low you will cut down the amount you are paying in interest after rates rise!

It's purely a matter of personal choice, of course, but I would rather pay for a child's education than pay extra on the mortgage. Education only happens once. Time for mortgage later.

To the comments I made on discipline - all I can say is my experience - I hear stories from friends who are state school teachers of chairs thrown, swearing at them, general disarray that they struggle to control where my school (admittedly girls school which might be some of the reason) would never have had anything like that. I guess it depends on the area but also private selective schools (rightly or wrongly) often wouldn't take a child like that, or one with ADHD, autism or other issue that might impact discipline / focus. I'm bit saying it's right or universally true - just what I've seen.

Not - not bit

Is she middling because that is her ability or so you feel the school is failing her. If she is working according to her ability moving her isn't going to be of much benefit

Some private schools are very high pressure on the pupils and the parents. They expect so much. Some committed suicide at a private school in this area. No matter how good the child they still expected more and more improvement.
I would be more interested in child being happy.

People are very happy to just accept what schools say about their kids! A move of school can make a world of difference to an apparently "middle set" child. My DS2 was pootling along, middle of the road in his school, they very much felt he was an average sort of boy I had my doubts about them when they said they had to ask him not to keep putting his hand up as the OP says, I was happy as long as he was achieving his potential. I sent him for a taster day at another school and they assessed him at that point and said he was achieving at the middle of the year group. I moved him to the new school and after initially feeling quite nervous and behind, after one term he got the top mark in the year for both Maths and Science. He is proving not to be average at all - I shudder to think that I might just have accepted what the old school said. Different schools can get different results out of children.

And it does matter in primary, because if they just trundle along towards the end of year six, where does that leave them for starting year seven?

This isn't necessarily a private/state school issue though, both of my DS's schools were fee-paying, just the first one suffered a loss of head and a gradual decline.

private selective schools (rightly or wrongly) often wouldn't take a child like that, or one with ADHD, autism or other issue that might impact discipline / focus.

Actually they tend to keep such issues quiet, so ignorant parents operating on disablist stereotypes (who therefore wouldn't recognise a neuro-developmental disability in a very able, charming child) don't have hissy fits.

Thanks everyone - food for thought. I hadn't fully considered the impact of interest rate rises but of course that is going to happen, hopefully not by too much.

I am already accounting for the senior school fees plus 10% rather than the junior school ones, so am ok with that for now.

I'm still thinking that a tutor may be best initially. If nothing else than to give a professional assessment of whether she is naturally of middle ability, or is just not being sufficiently challenged.

The thing to remember about tutors us that they hook you in fir their £45 ph.

It would be very helpful to find out what the school use to assess the students, and how often it is done.

But I agree that tutors need you to keep paying them week in and week out so I wouldnt necessarily take their word for it on how able (or otherwise) she is.

You can get past papers for SATS, so it might be worth having her do a couple and see how her results compare with what the school are saying her levels are.

Don't get her a private tutor. Go to Kumon or some other big organisation. See if you can do Khan Academy online. A private tutor might see you as the goose that lays the golden eggs.

To answer your question, Kumon are good. They also only look good if your child does well.

What if you spend a lot of money on private school fees and she ends up in a low wage job? I have two good friends who went to a very expensive boarding school who earn less per year than their parents paid per year for their education. One set of parents not bothered, other set pretty annoyed that they feel their dd has wasted her opportunity.

Might depend on whether she is happy at school and would miss her friends at her current school. Things might change at secondary anyway. In year 7 at dc school those who got moved into top sets were not those we would have expected from primary school.

Is that what education is about donthate?

Actually I think you often find a very high percentage of children with learning issues at selective independents. Even very academic ones. At my DSs school there are lots of ASD children and children with issues such as dyslexia etc. At a recent presentation we were told a very high figure.

In terms of behaviour, all schools will have well behaved children and not so well behaved children. The difference is often what is viewed as "very bad behaviour". Swearing under your breath at DS's school would get you a very severe punishment. Talking back rudely is not tolerated. It means there are generally not many behaviour problems although there are clearly still playground fallings out etc.

Yes, we did a few years at an outstanding and sought after comp. The behaviour was mindblowing. The head insisted standards of behaviour and expectations around it were very high. Now I'm not sure if her expectations and mine were different or if she just told lies but my definition of very high standards of behaviour don't include: Assault, pyromania, theft, major and low level disruption, foul language to staff etc. Just doesn't seem to happen in the independent sector. If a head teacher does think those behaviours represent very high standards then there's one heck of an issue.

Before moving her, have you really established that they are inflexible on all groupings, or could it be that other children do move but that hasn't been right for your DD? You say "if" she is in the right group that's fine, and I personally would explore that more at her current school rather than leaping to pay for private secondary education. I think the tutor is a good half way house if you can find a great one. And I still think you need to look round whatever local secondaries you're prepared to consider, as a key part of the decision.

It is a shame that "middling" has negative connotations. The thing with middle sets is most children are in them. IME top and bottom groups are often smaller, which makes sense with a bell shaped curve of ability. Middle sets are also catered for well in class teaching for the same reason. I have one child who's out on their own for one subject and although her teacher is amazing with her, it is surely much harder to meet her needs in a group setting. Sometimes that must mean a lesson serves the majority of the class better than her. Be careful what you wish for.

There should be no shame or failure in being in the middle and "target market" for the lesson. School is about learning, not proving how you're cleverer than others week in, week out. But I don't know how, as a parent, you unpick whether your child is making "enough" progress for them or if you feel they are "underchallenged". And that applies to every child, not just the majority in the middle. A child can be in the top set or bottom and still be underchallenged for them. I suppose it comes down to whether you trust the teachers.

OP, I completely get where you're coming from! It's ridiculous to label a young child according to "ability". Teachers cannot assess this magic thing called "ablity" as they have no idea what an individual child is capable of. This obsession with identifying a child on some kind of "ability scale" is peculiar to the UK. What teachers can and do measure is skills and knowledge, which is a whole different thing.

I think, OP, you might be fine with your child assessed on her skills and she was in the middle range of her class. What you don't want, and you're completely right to avoid, is your child being pigeonholed.

I think you need to be more specific about your concerns with teachers and explain that you would like to know what opportunities for progression there are, etc...also maybe considering the psychological aspects. Is your daughter happy in this school, friends etc? I think from there you can make a more informed decision. Personally I have negative experiences of private schools so I find it hard to be objective about private education. I think it cam open doors to certain places more easily but the world is becoming a more inclusive place.