Middling DD, private at Y5, and disposable income

[Arrowedheart]

DD is in an outstanding primary but is being kept as middle of the road in terms of sets - 'middle' tables get the same work whether in set 1 or 2) I've asked for the last couple of years how she can progress but have been told that's how it is.

I'm under no illusions that she may not be very academic naturally and that's fine. However I do feel that if there is no scope to move between sets, it is restrictive. There are 2 year 4 classes and no one has been moved up or down as far as I know.

I am considering moving her to a private school for Y5. We have visited and know ex pupils. She is an only child so no other kids to worry about. We have good salaries but a high mortgage. We would have about £1.2k left a month for food, going out, clothes, etc.

Shoot me down or let me know your experiences please

There isnt generally streaming in primary schools though. What you need to consider is not what group she is in but her levels and how they compare to the average. If she is bang on average in her levels then moving her wont change that.

If her levels are significantly higher than average and you feel that she isnt being challenged then you need to take that up with the school first, giving them a chance to increase the difficulty of her work so she can work at the right level.

The fact is that you do come across a bit "that parent" in that you think that if she is in the middling group it must because the school is wrong and not because she is in fact, middling.

It sounds quite tight but only you know if it's workable for you. Having said that, if you feel it's enough and it's a good school then go for it.

Do check about extras though. Mine are at 2 prep schools, one charges about £60-70 a term per after school activity and we sign up for 3 at a time. The other includes all clubs in the fees. One includes lunches in fees, one doesn't. One adds trips into fees, one asks for them to be paid separately. There's also a residential every year from year 3 which is about £200 and requires some new kit. One charges for breakfast club, one doesn't, one asks for a £50 per year contribution to the PSA, the other does a £5 class collection.

What do you think would be better if you moved her? How would you feel if she was positioned in the middle band of the new school?

Chaz has a good suggestion, but I would also say set aside the senior fee rather than the junior one so you see the eventual position

Pretty cheap private school if 1.2 left has to include food and everything else. Most of the ones round me are 12-14k a year.

bogeyface I am afraid I don't necessarily agree with you. DD was middle of the class, middle table, doing fine, meeting national standards, no issues academically at all. We moved her to a good private school for other reasons and with a smaller class she has absolutely shone. She's in all the top groups, she's on the G&T group for maths and her standard of work is far beyond what her far brighter top set brother managed in state primary. She's year 5 and managing level 6 maths papers quite easily and her English is very good too and she is really no genius, she has just been taught really well.

Is your issue that you think if she was moved into the top set she'd be pushed more, and she'd probably keep up with the top set because they'd sort of pull her along?

Otherwise, I don't really understand what you think private would achieve. Tutoring would be cheaper. If money was no object then why not, but you could do without that noose round your neck.

No brainer for me. Would absolutely move to private

Main reason for moving her is better individual attention and excellent pastoral care. It is a selective school but definitely not an academic hothouse like others in our area.

She will always be an only child, and I also have the feeling that I want her to have the best start I can possibly afford. However I would not do this if it meant eating beans on toast for the next 9 years.

Beau. We could easily move into a bigger house for a lot less money if we wanted to. We are currently paying for location and it was never meant to be a long term move.

Check out bursaries? Both my dd and ds's schools offer them.

Is she happy at school, does she enjoy it, has she good friends?
There is more to life than being academically "challenged".

How will you feel if, after making these financial sacrifices, she is still just a middle set achiever at the new school?

Bedraggled. We would likely spend the money on holidays and general frippery as we spend what we have.

Arrow, I have a middling elder DC and a top set younger one. I'm actually more concerned about the younger one as I can see DC1 taking time to work things through at her own pace and learning what works for her in terms of understanding and processing information - I can see her learning how to learn if that makes sense and I'm pleased with that. I think for 99% of the jobs out there that the DCs may wish to do in future being organised and disciplined is the the most important thing and having confidence in your ability to provide work that meets the required standard (I've heard a lot of comments at work about the 80:20 rule over the years).

I'm actually more worried about DC2. She finds many things (but not all) very easy, a bit too easy, and often doesn't try. She is far more likely than DC1 to give up on things she finds difficult and I think this is far more likely to be a barrier to her. I also think she might not cope well not being the "clever" one whereas DC1 just gets her head down and gets on with it.

You sound slightly as if you are looking for a reason to move her to private because you (personally) didn't enjoy your time at the state school she may end up at.

I agree that you need to get some answers from the school before you make a decision. Is she working at a level that the school thinks is challenging (but do-able?). If not, why not? Does she thinks that its challenging or easy? What can you do at home? Is she happy?

I wouldn't automatically move her presuming that the education would be any better.

Wouldn't be able to get a bursary due to earnings. On current salaries will have about £1.7k clear after bills and mortgage etc. Been keeping savings aside but could use if desperate.

As I said upthread. I'm not saying DD is particularly academic now or in the future. What I am saying is nothing I do will make a difference to where she is at her current school as they will not move sets. There are 60 in the year and 40 of those are neither top or bottom and will be staying put.

Is she happy?

I don't think sets matter, as long as the education she's getting is reasonable. At secondary level yes, but at this age school is for teaching them the basics to a secure, reliable competence, and for socialising them into friendly, polite kids who know that work is essential to progress, preferably as gently and with as much fun as possible. I know several kids at private schools whose parents aren't supplying that, and whose kids show zero intellectual interest in anything outside the fashions and crazes of their peers. The curiosity that you need at secondary and university level isn't taught in schools, IMO. It has to be more fundamentally instilled, or rather sparked, by surrounding them with things they find interesting and making them fun, and then getting them enthused enough to do the rest. That means school follows on naturally and they run with what they are given.

At primary level, I would say that happiness is everything. And given secondary schools are way more expensive, and fees increase at above-inflation levels, in your position I would be paying down my mortgage as fast as I could so that I had more money to play with at that secondary level. Because huge comprehensives don't suit all kids - my own would be eaten alive, and I don't know at this stage if he could cope with the pressures of a super-selective grammar either, even if he got in. So we are trying to work out how to pay for private at that stage ourselves.

If she's unhappy, or it's affecting her confidence in her own abilities, then I would move her in a heartbeat. But if she is doing well socially, happy and positive about her friends and her school, then I would think really carefully about disrupting that over a perceived lack of academic challenge. Apart from anything else, as has been said you can have her tutored on that score. What you can't do is make her feel she belongs and is a valued member of a community if you move her and she doesn't like it. And that sense that she is a likeable person is IMO more valuable, as a primary lesson, than anything else. Happy children are hard-wired to want to learn, and anyway, childhood is not just a preparation for life - it's (on average) a fifth of it.

So you accept DD may not be academic, but you think her set has a really big impact on whether she turns out academic or not? I'm just not sure what the benefit of sending her to private school would be. It sounds like she's doing fine - just in the middle. Well, someone has to be in the middle, right?

Am I missing something?

Maybe I am projecting my experiences on her potential ones. However there are a few secondary schools to choose from, not just my old one.

With only one child to think about, and the means to afford it, I'd move her like a shot.

If you can afford it and imo it sounds like you can easily afford it, then I would move her.

Your reasoning is to give her a better start and if you believe this lies in private education, at least you will believe that you have done the best for her rather than regret not sending her.

Lonny. Yes she may be in the middle and I am absolutely fine with that. My concern is that it has been decided that is where she is, and that is where she will stay, rightly or wrongly. Last year (Y3) she said she didn't like being in the bottom set for maths. I asked the teacher where we could help her improve (at parent's evening). She said DD should learn her 8 X table. DD knew it better than me in a few days and it made no difference.

Honestly, I'm rather startled that nobody seems to be asking how happy she is at the current school. There's no guarantee she would be happy at a new one, and if she is thriving there socially, and enjoys school and has a positive attitude to learning, then why would you risk changing that over some distinctly nebulous concerns? There's no way of knowing how a child will fit into a given dynamic in a class, or how much a change will unsettle her.

I don't know. Perhaps because I hated school myself, and because I moved my bitterly unhappy, badly bullied child to a school where he is infinitely happier, it's a bigger issue for me. But I know so many people who hated school, and so many parents who say their kids are unhappy going. So why is the child's happiness or otherwise not being more widely raised as a concern, here

Why do not you engage the child with some tuition?

Last year (Y3) she said she didn't like being in the bottom set for maths. I asked the teacher where we could help her improve (at parent's evening). She said DD should learn her 8 X table. DD knew it better than me in a few days and it made no difference.

Was she saying that learning her 8 X table would be enough to get her up a set, though, or just that she was weak at maths and that was an example of something you could work on? It's great that you did, but I think tick-boxing to get her up a set is missing the point a bit - the 8 x table isn't going to improve her overall mathematical understanding and knowledge.

Have you looked on Amazon? There are great resources - we got this (we play games with it, trying to catch him out) and this (I bloody sing it in the car, now - so embarrassing) for DS, for example. If the problem is that she's weak at maths, then a single times table won't alter that.