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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Middling DD, private at Y5, and disposable income

123 replies

Arrowedheart · 26/01/2016 21:48

DD is in an outstanding primary but is being kept as middle of the road in terms of sets - 'middle' tables get the same work whether in set 1 or 2) I've asked for the last couple of years how she can progress but have been told that's how it is.

I'm under no illusions that she may not be very academic naturally and that's fine. However I do feel that if there is no scope to move between sets, it is restrictive. There are 2 year 4 classes and no one has been moved up or down as far as I know.

I am considering moving her to a private school for Y5. We have visited and know ex pupils. She is an only child so no other kids to worry about. We have good salaries but a high mortgage. We would have about £1.2k left a month for food, going out, clothes, etc.

Shoot me down or let me know your experiences please

OP posts:
GruntledOne · 27/01/2016 00:47

I don't really see the issue with her being in the middle set. It's better than struggling in the lower reaches of the top set and possibly never feeling that she properly gets to grips with the work. But if it's a concern, I would suggest your money is better spent on some extra home tuition till she reaches secondary level.

BeaufortBelle · 27/01/2016 06:47

OP you say it's not a long term move but the school is 4-18. If she's happy, happier than you have ever seen, are you seriously going to move her at 11 or 13. You really won't so you need to think of this as a 9 year plan, then three years at uni and possibly a masters. Move and free the capital to pay for it and then it's a win win all round.

Good luck bet it's Surbiton

HermioneJeanGranger · 27/01/2016 06:58

Have you considered the fact that as soon as she hits year 9, the fees will skyrocket? It costs an extra several thousand a year to go private at secondary level, and more again at sixth form. If you'll "only" have 1.2k left a month at the moment, how are you going to afford the even higher fees in two/three years time?

LynetteScavo · 27/01/2016 07:00

I don't see how you can afford it Confused

LynetteScavo · 27/01/2016 07:06

Oh, £1.2 left after fees? Then it's doable, but will be tight waits to be flamed

From what you've said I wouldn't be moving my DD until Y7, but that's just me.

Bunbaker · 27/01/2016 07:09

"I would invest in tutoring for her for the rest of this academic year to see how well she progresses, however"

I would do the same. It will give an indication of whether your daughter actually is capable of more without making a long term commitment by changing school. I would also look at your daughter's progress and see how she has developed, and try not to compare hers to those of her classmates.

chrome100 · 27/01/2016 07:12

£1.2k is more than I earn per month working full time!

Goingtobeawesome · 27/01/2016 07:18

My child is at an independent school. It is less than £100 a year for extras after fees and most is optional plus £200 ish for an optional trip, so it is wrong to assume there are always £££ of extras needed.

DisneyMillie · 27/01/2016 07:18

My dd goes to a 4-18 private school and personally so far I couldn't be happier with my decision. The teaching is amazing, class sizes small and brilliant extras. They do maths a year above state school levels as standard.

I also (from my experience going to one and from friends) think there tend not to be any discipline issues at private school and because they're often selective academically everyone is learning at the same level so you're not restricted by teaching to lower abilities. Now that's not necessarily fair as everyone deserves a great education but I do think paying buys a better one.

Bunbaker · 27/01/2016 07:22

"there tend not to be any discipline issues at private school and because they're often selective academically everyone is learning at the same level so you're not restricted by teaching to lower abilities."

Some of the brighter students at DD's school are badly behaved.

BeaufortBelle · 27/01/2016 07:25

The fact of the matter is, if the op's dd is top average in Y4/5 and the op lives in SW London there is a micro education system. The competition for premier and first division schools at 11 is mind blowing. It is much easier to transfer into a first division GDST at 9 or 10 than at 11 when places as being chased by five at a time. Even the Indy places.

If the op is in zone 2/3 of SW London then they can easily relocate to surrey fringes and have enough "change" to pay the rump of the fees for nine years and live well.

DragonRojo · 27/01/2016 07:27

I did it in Y3 for the same reasons. No regrets whatsoever

BeaufortBelle · 27/01/2016 07:28

DD did two years at an outstanding London Comp with a reputation to match none. The reality was that I entirely agree with Disney. London I not like the rest of the country.

Original poster
Arrowedheart · 27/01/2016 07:56

The point about moving was in response to the poster who asked if I would be willing to buy a cheaper house, it wasn't to do with school.

There is a Kumon centre near me - are they meant to be any good?

OP posts:
didofido · 27/01/2016 08:06

I'd move her as soon as possible.

Middle sets are sometimes allowed to coast at primary schools. The lower sets need to be brought up to acceptable levels, the top set and the middle are OK, so less concentration on pushing them.

She would probably be flying within weeks in a good independent school. I've seen it happen.

Nomoregrief · 27/01/2016 08:24

We moved DS in Y3 for the same reason - we saw a huge difference within just a few weeks. The school set standards so much higher and all the kids did so much better. All I would say is move as soon as you can - your DD will have a lot of ground to make up and more time she has to do that, the better. I'd start her on Monday.

bedraggledmumoftwo · 27/01/2016 08:27

Havent read the thread since I went to bed last night, but had another thought. You say you have a high mortgage. Interest rates are still at an all time low but expected to rise in the next year or so. My figures here will be complete conjecture, as I have no idea how big your big mortgage is, but say it is 300k. If rates were to rise by 3%, which is well within the realms of possibility,that would be £750 more a month on interest. Leaving you only £450 for your whole foods and entertainment bill. Factor in an above inflation rise in school fees and you could actually be living on baked beans! If interest rates rose by 5% that is all your spending money gone and no money even for beans!

Obviously your mortgage might be smaller than that, you may have a fix for a few years, and expected rate roses may never happen. But we have all heard the tales of woe of 15% interest in the 80s. If that were to happen again you would only need a 100k mortgage to wipe out all your food and spending money.

Sorry to focus on the money, but I'm an accountant. My personal opinion is that you would need a bigger cushion or no mortgage to contemplate such a big financial commitment

Nomoregrief · 27/01/2016 08:28

My experience of our local state school was that the middle/top groups got no attention or support. The school were not interested in maximising the potential of each individual child, they were only interested in making sure that the bottom set did not fall too far behind. The school wanted to keep the rest of class at the same ability level - so much easier to manage and teach.

EricNorthmanSucks · 27/01/2016 08:37

OP it's evident that you have the £s and you want to give your DD the benefit of a private education.

Why do you need permission?

redhat · 27/01/2016 08:53

Affordability aside I think you need to think carefully about what it is you will be buying for your money.

I have two DSs in a selective primary. DS1 is a very high achiever and is at the top for everything. The school stretches him since it is keen to maintain its reputation for academic excellence.

DS2 is not at the top. He is a very clever boy but he's sat in the middle. He's sat in the middle because the school is selective and so every single child there is bright, reasonably hard working, being encouraged and supported at home. Its a skewed sample.

The school is not great for him. They simply accept that some children have to be at the top, some will be in the middle and some will be in the bottom. If you query what additional support you can give they will trot out the same old line about how he is way above where he should be for his age and everything is fine. He doesn't get the additional support that is given to those at the top and those at the bottom.

If your child was at the top of her class and needing to be pushed then a selective primary might be great for her. If she's sitting in the middle where she is then there's a good chance she'll be at the bottom in a selective primary. That isn't going to do her self esteem any good.

I'd think very carefully and also get some information about how the children in the independent school are working and what they have covered. At my DSs school for example she would have been expected to know all of her times tables by the time she entered year 3, not just up to 8. You don't want to put her into an environment where she's having to do lots to catch up unless you genuinely believe that she would react well to that. Another consideration is that certainly at my DSs selective independent it's like a senior school. All lessons are taught by subject specialists and they are big on streaming (maths english science) and so the likelihood is that if she has catching up to do she'll be in the bottom group for everything.

LaContessaDiPlump · 27/01/2016 09:00

1200 left over per month for food and frivolities? We've got 800 left over atm and are considering going down to 400!!

I am slightly amazed that anyone considers 1200 excess to be 'a bit tight' Confused There's clearly a more affluent world out there which I have no knowledge of.....

BabyGanoush · 27/01/2016 09:05

Not sure what to recommend, what are your state secondaries like?

I moved my DS at the end of Yr 3, as he was bottom set with no chance of moving up. In fact he was moved down to a set comprising children from the year below. The teacher shrugged and said: "Someone has to be bottom of the class". He was given no extra help. He spent a lot of his time folding paper planes and staring out of the window.

We moved him to a private school, where he was still bottom set (very academic school), but they still expected him to work hard and do well. There was no ceiling put on his achievements so to speak. And interestingly when we moved him to a State Comprehensive for secondary, after CATs he was put in middle/top sets.

For him it broke the negative spiral of low expectations by schools/teachers. (really poor SATS in Yr2, he was predicted not to get to level 4 by Y6 (no chance in hell), maybe a level 3. Yet he ended up leaving yr 6 with a 4b in English and a 5b in maths at the other school)

I did choose a secondary school that moves kids around a lot, so DS has been moved up for Maths, moved down for language, but that is a good thing IMO. He knows he can move up by working harder, it seems to motivate him.

So yes, for us it worked. But like I say, it depends a bit on the secondary school you have got your eyes on.

Also, it takes a year to settle in (socially) for the child, so better act quick or not at all.

Headofthehive55 · 27/01/2016 09:14

I think it all levels out in the end. There might not be any difference between middle and top set other than perhaps she's slower to do the work ( more careful perhaps? ) so it appears she is having more difficulty. My DD3 dreams a lot so does very little work at school.

I would be careful in moving her. It's ok for a couple of years, but eventually you have to replace stuff like a car perhaps, and it's an extra cost you don't need. You also might like to do different holidays when she us older, a safari perhaps, which may be curtailed.

My DD moved to an independent from a comp due to her not really making friends, (late to join the school as moved house) and we felt the education would be better. In the end, although it was a well regarded selective Indy, she didn't do any better than her old peers at the comp. there was lots from the Indy going off to Oxbridge which has made her feel she hasn't achieved though, so in some respects I'm not sure it was altogether a good move.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 27/01/2016 09:14

Disney I find it hard to believe there are 'no' discipline issues in private schools, tbh. They may be downplayed and HT's may have methods of dealing with them that are not available to the average comp, but there will be issues.

BeaufortBelle · 27/01/2016 09:16

It was me who asked about downsizing the property. Similar to the accountant above, if you can move and repay the mortgage or raise a slug of capital do it in a heartbeat but do it for nine years nit two ir three. If you can't do that, then don't do it because you can't afford it.