To agree with this headteacher regarding wearing pyjamas as outdoor wear?

[MaisyMooMoo]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-35413153

Btw I think the bank and and court analogies are poor. People dress up for those out of self interest and the whole point is generally because it is the person they're meeting's job to make a judgement on their character.Nothing to do with respect. A better analogy would be a doctor's appointment. Don't think anyone wears anything special for those.

"Yes its difficult to get up and get sorted but the working community manage and take their kids to school then work."
I was going to single this out as particularly nasty and judgmental, but then you got worse.

My mum, who was working every day of my childhood, and only recently retired at over 70, used to take my sister and I to school wearing her pajamas. Albeit driving.
You see we had to be at school 2 hours before she had to be at work, so then she would come home and shower, dress, etc., without having to rush or fight for available bathroom space.
This didn't make her lazy, it made her sensible. The thing is that you have no idea if somebody else, who walks their child to school, is doing the same thing. Because it's easier for you to make lazy judgmental assumptions.

NinjaLeprechaun - it would be interesting to know whether your mum would have walked you to school like that, or whether she would have quickly changed into something more outdoorsy-looking, first, if she couldn't take the car.

Tbh, I consider my pyjamas to be cleaner than my outdoor clothes and wouldn't want to have them rained on, or covered in outdoor grime and pollen, so if I did go out for a walk in them, I wouldn't want to go back to bed in them, afterwards. I would definitely need indoor and outdoor pyjamas. Which would kind of spoil the point. Oh well!

longestlurkerever - speak for yourself. I wouldn't go to the doctor looking and smelling dirty, wearing dirty underwear or wearing pyjamas - unless exceptionally ill. I wouldn't go to the dentist with unbrushed teeth - or wearing pyjamas... It is a mix of respect and self-respect. At home, if I'm expecting no visitors, I might happily spend all day in pyjamas without having brushed my teeth or had a shower.

Still, if your pyjamas are genuine outdoor wear that people have mistaken for bedclothes, then that's the problem of the beholder!

Yes I suppose that's what I meant. I wouldn't wear pjs to the doctor, but if that was what I was accustomed to wear to the supermarket I would. I think people do have separate outdoor pjs that they put on after a wash. Sil appears to. She once changed out of jeans into pj bottoms covered in hearts to go out. It did strike me as bizarre but I think they were clean!

Ps sil is a teacher (world caves in on self)

I think part of the problem here is thatnpeople are assuming that pjs = unwashed and that assumption is shared by the head teacher who is telling people to wash and dress. I doubt she is standing by the school gate sniffing passing parents as they do the drop off, so it's quite possibly an incorrect assumption.

"NinjaLeprechaun - it would be interesting to know whether your mum would have walked you to school like that, or whether she would have quickly changed into something more outdoorsy-looking, first, if she couldn't take the car."
SHE probably wouldn't have, no. (Too worried about what her mother the neighbours would think, etc., etc.) But my point was that it had nothing to do with being lazy/feckless, or unemployed, as several PP have suggested.

When DD3 was a baby I made the conscious decision to spend the half hour before school with DD1 and DD2 rather than making use of them to babysit their sister so that I could be all dressed and respectable. It made for a much more relaxed and happy household.

It is the "lazy" assumption which I object to.

Too cold for PJs today so I put on my cashmere loungewear on in solidarity. Unfortunately DD3 has gunky eyes which nursery don't appreciate so we are at home with the playdough. I am doubting the wisdom of my clothing choice.

There are probably a few issues. Some people at drop off won't have got ready for the day yet. For whatever reason they've prioritised getting everyone else up and out of the door. This is none of anyone else's concern. Other people who turn up at parents' meetings etc in pjs probably consider pjs as akin to any other comfy clothing eg tracksuit and probably haven't been to bed in them. Again, none of anyone else's concern.

There might be people who turn up to school meetings in clothing they've been to bed in. If this is the case a discreet word about the effect it has on their children might be appropriate but not a public shaming via an all parents letter

Well put longestlurker. I think it is a good rule of thumb that if you wouldn't say something to someone face to face then you probably shouldn't address them anonymously in writing.

I also find it interesting that it's ok to be lazy and/or feckless and disorganised if you're furtive and able/willing to drop your kids at school by car but if you're unashamed about walking to school on your pjs then you're clearly scum.

Agreed. One of the reasons I am often a shambles is because whatever the weather I always walk the 10 minutes there and back. It has been so wet and windy of late I am often on my 3rd pair of trousers by the end of the day.

I will admit to being inclined to silently judge the occupants of the cars splashing me and DD3 and parking all over the pavement, but I don't write them well meaning notes. I have been known to take them to task personally if they endanger the life of my child by reversing wantonly or running a red light.

Blufin you've hit the nail on the head.

When my dc were at primary school, there was a father who used to turf his children out of the car opposite the school entrance, when everyone else had gone in. It was a nuisance as I was usually trying to cross the road to take the younger dc to playgroup, and he was not a careful driver.

He was wearing a suit, but he had obviously just got out of bed - his face had that startled look (like J Lumley in Ab Fab, but without the flat, red side).

Not convinced this is better than getting dc to school on time in your PJs.

I make no assumptions about someone's fecklessness or personal hygiene if they are in pyjamas (unless the pyjamas are filthy, extremely revealing, or the person stinks to high heaven...), I just idly wonder whether they are wearing any underwear, why they are doing it and how practical the clothes are for outdoor wear. As I would rather people didn't speculate about the presence or absence of my bra and knickers, I prefer to get dressed in obviously daytime clothes when I go out. Each to his own. I would still find it very odd for someone to choose to wear pyjamas to a meeting, though, as I do not think they are established as acceptable daytime clothing and thus send out a massive signal that the wearer would rather be in bed than talking to you. I would therefore find it pretty offensive if someone turned up to a pre-arranged meeting with me in their pyjamas and would find it very odd if they didn't understand why I thought that.

It is lazy to wear pyjamas out! I can't believe how many times I've read people defending it. Like they're the first people to ever have sleepless nights with a baby! There's no reason you can't take 30 seconds to put on some jeans and a jumper.

Personally, I'd rather be 10 seconds late (the time it takes to pull trackies and a top on) than go to school in PJs.
And surely it takes as long to put slippers on as shoes.

I don't think it's about being late out of bed at all. I think it's a fashion choice. I'd never ever choose to dress like that but perhaps I'm being snobbishly judgmental to the type of people who do?

I think that while many people wouldn't wear pjs in public, they are defending the right to do so. It is important, I think, to defend the right of adults to live as they please, so long as their actions are lawful. Even if they make choices that other people don't personally like.

I also think we need to stop this nanny state mentality, whereby someone whose job it is to teach children, considers themselves to have authority over those children's parents.

While it us human nature to have opinions and make judgements, I consider the HT to be spectacularly rude in writing that letter.

Quite, NN. And the number of people on the thread who defend the letter on the basis that "wearing pyjamas is lazy" without addressing the other questions is illuminating. As is the fact that it is not the act of wearing pjs/being unwashed on the school run but the lack of shame about these matters that seems to offend most of all, since many people say shoving joggers over the top of pjs or sitting in the car would be preferable. It seems we haven't moved so far from Victorian values as one might imagine

Can't believe this is even up for discussion. Of course you should get dressed before you go anywhere, including taking your children to school.My parents wouldn't even answer the front door in their nightclothes.
Get up, have breakfast ,get washed and dressed. Hardly difficult (with a very few exceptions of illness). And no, having a new baby isn't an exception.

All this talk about dressing appropriately for the place you're going does have a bit of a class edge when you think about it, though. Someone up-thread suggested yoga pants as an alternative. I work in quite a yummy mummy area and I see hordes of middle class women going out in yoga pants and trainers, likewise at the school gates when my son was at primary school. I've often thought, surely they're best left in the gym but somehow they're appropriate because it's a middle class thing. FWIW I wouldn't go out in PJ's but it does bug me that different rules apply for middle class fads, surely if it's assumed PJs will be smelly and sweaty because they've been slept this will be all the more true for gym gear that you've done a workout in.

I see Samantha Brick has waded in, to announce it is women's own fault if their husband's cheat, if they persist in wearing pjs, French women do the school run immaculately dressed. So presumably no French man is ever unfaithful. Oh wait...