to let DS not do his homework

[recyclingbag]

DS is in Year 5.

He does well in school and working above levels etc. However his homework is causing difficulty.

He refuses to do it until the evening before it is due. Trouble is, that evening is always really busy. I don't really want them doing homework at the weekends so am trying to get it done before the weekend.

He's having none of it. This week he hasn't done it. Last week he had to do it again as it was clear he'd rushed it. He's very stubborn and telling/forcing him to do things is usually counter productive.

Do I just leave him to sort it out for himself? I'm tempted to say no TV/Ipad etc if it's not done but I also rather he just did it himself. Or make a timetable that we have to stick to.

What do you do? Do you 'make' them do it at certain times?

One while I agree it is their responsibility, in high school not doing homework results in after school detentions which impact the whole family for us, and many others so it's best to set down expectations early. If my DS1 gets detention resulting in after school detention then there are consequences at home too.

Olivia - I have two in High school - they learned in primary that homework is their responsibility, they therefore have never failed to submit homework or had any detentions in High School. (or primary for that matter as far as I know)

"I wonder (genuinely) how much these "homework refusers" are picking up on their parents' dismissal of the importance of homework. If their parents think it's unimportant, it's hardly going to motivate the kids, is it?"

No, but I do think it's unimportant, especially at primary school. It's just what I believe.

I just went through this with ds (in yr 6) last week - so all very recent.

It came to Sunday night (two weeks ago) - and his homework was due on Tuesday. He had been procrastinating deliberately in doing his homework. He did his maths homework no problem, but English - he kept saying it was too difficult (it was not). We helped him, but he was just wanting us to spoon feed/dictate his work. He was clearly being lazy. We did everything, sat him down, went through it and waited for him to write something. Then we told him it was up to him.

At 8.30 Sunday night - DH said 'so let me look at your homework' (he asked knowing it had not been done).

DH and I both gave him a lecture as to wasting time in front of the TV and deliberately procrastinating and having to be responsible.

DS went into fits of tears and he realised we were right. He was so apologetic.

We agreed no TV/computer Monday to Thursday for the rest of the month and that he would do all his homework during the week. So far it has been marvellous. He does not miss tv during the week at all. He is practicing piano more, he is spending time reading more. It is actually brilliant. Even DS admits that life without tv is much better - and it makes him appreciate it more on the weekend.

He was fine when we told him we would extend the Monday to Thursday ban partially and limit him to 30 minutes of tv or computer (his choice) when he got back from school from February.

No, but I do think it's unimportant, especially at primary school. It's just what I believe.

Agree.

I don't think primary homework is important, however I don't pass that on as I think learning to get into a routine of doing it when you get it is important. I reminded them about that when heading up to high school as obviously different teachers for each subject wont take account of what you've already been given. However, they've taken full responsibility for their own homework from about age 7 (i.e. the age at which they didn't have to do accompanied reading any more)

Okay, it may not work for all children, but I don't think mine are particularly motivated or driven. they do respect authority though and they are told all the time that doing well and working hard will give them more choices in life.

They are doing well in all aspects of life and know they are loved and that we are there to support them. I think our relationship is all the better for us not sitting on their back all the time.

@sallyhasleftthebuilding - my gosh, I am so glad we are not the only one. DS is just like this. Once he spent 9 hours - yes 9 hours trying to do his homework - that took him 40 minutes when he finally started. This was after basically dictating him what to write for about three hours and him not wanting to listen.

Our DS is an angel otherwise - a hard worker in school - top set for everything - teachers love him - but it just doesn't translate to homework at home.

Once DH got so frustrated after 3 hours- he just picked DS out of the chair and just did the homework in 5 minutes (totally wrong - but it the week after the 9 hour incident and we had tickets somewhere).

Whether homework at primary level is 'important' ie effective depends entirely on what is set, in which subject and the quality of home support.

I agree Olivia if my dd was to be in trouble at school she would be in trouble at home too. It's my job to discipline my child and to back the teachers up. If I don't think it's fair I will talk to the teachers and my child but I won't let a detention at school be the end of the matter. (My dd has never had detention but if she did)!

I wouldn't discipline them twice Jw how is that fair? If they've been given an appropriate punishment then that's the punishment. It wouldn't stop me explaining that I was disappointed and why and asking what they think they should do and making sure that it is an appropriate action....or offering help if they needed help to devise a system or way of remembering.

Support and guidance doesn't always need to take the form of a (double) punishment. I would add that I am no pushover and have no problem giving and carrying out punishments for stuff under my control.

Having said that, I am not aware of any times my children have been in trouble at school. Don't think it's happened yet, certainly nothing that has been fed back to me or worried the child enough that they have had to confess.

I wonder (genuinely) how much these "homework refusers" are picking up on their parents' dismissal of the importance of homework. If their parents think it's unimportant, it's hardly going to motivate the kids, is it?"

One refuser - two happy to do all and more - what's your theory now?

I don't believe in double punishment either. DS is sometimes in trouble for talking too much or laughing inappropriately. There are consequences at school for that which he has to live with. He comes home and tells me about it and we discuss it. I don't think he would do that if he was just going to get into trouble again.

He knows he would be in a huge amount of trouble at home for unkindness though or any form of bullying.

DS had problems with bullying in the past and it was from the good quiet kids that always behaved in class and did their homework beautifully. Their parents couldn't have cared less.

That's another matter entirely though.

to answer some issues raised:

I say again, hating primary homework aged 9 does not mean they will be unwilling or unable to do secondary homework aged 11, 12, 13.

You do not need to teach them self discipline in primary in order that they do secondary homework. They are 2 separate things. One does not lead to the other, just as I didn't teach them aged 2-3 their letters in order to be ready for reception, because they weren't ready.

I have complete sympathy with this

1. Sit him down first thing on a Saturday morning when he's not tired, not hungry, etc.
2. He moans and grumbles, so we try to help get him started
3. Continues to moan and not write anything
4. We say no TV, XBox, playing, etc for the rest of the weekend unless you get on with it
5. He continues to grumble
6. We feel ourselves getting cross so we leave him to it
7. He stays sitting there, sometimes for hours, not doing homework
8. Eventually after an age, he reluctantly does the absolute minimum.

and sandy the squirrel - 9 hours and then once they decided to do it it took 40 minutes. Yes yes yes yes.

if you have never had a refuser, then you just don't understand how 30 minutes of a really easy maths sheet can become a whole saturday of arguments or stroppy behaviour etc.

I am a strict parent, no problem in removing screens etc, but we literally spent hours each weekend dealing with the homework protest.

I have 3 dcs. Only one is a homework refuser. The others would happily follow all the smug suggestions on this thread about how to disciple them into doing it.

But my homework refuser went into year 7, and took control of his homework. Self discipline? tick, self motivation? tick, failed to submitt homework? never. Detentions? never. Doing well at school? very.

There is no equation that says make them do it at primary then they will do it well at secondary, it is a false equation.
Just like the false equation that says teach them to read early and they will do better at school.

Jesus wept. A 9-year old does not get to "choose to not do his homework until the evening before it's due". He does it when he's told to. Children do as they're told. If he isn't doing his homework it's your fault for not making him do it. Do people even bother to parent any more?

As for the woman who decided homework was optional, god help her poor spoiled children when they start secondary school, college or work.

fabrica - read the post above yours

the 'poor ds' started a super selective grammar and is doing very well, with plenty of self motivation.

congratulations though on being a perfect parent.

I don't believe in double punishment either. DS is sometimes in trouble for talking too much or laughing inappropriately. There are consequences at school for that which he has to live with. He comes home and tells me about it and we discuss it. I don't think he would do that if he was just going to get into trouble again.

I look at it a bit differently. I have expectations for my daughter at school, school has expectations too. If these aren't met, the school can deal with it as they see fit, but I reserve the right to deal with it too - I do not wish to hear about my child behaving in certain ways in any context. She has been given plenty of information about behaviour I will not want to hear about and disobedience in school is disobedience to me too. I'll deal with that aspect.

DS1 has had detention for not doing homework, this lasts for 2 hours after school. We do not live within walking distance so this means going back to collect him, meaning picking up in rush hour traffic and it takes ages. His DBs also have to come with me to collect him, I don't think a consequence for disputing everyone else is unreasonable. I will just add that even when I know his homework is done, I cannot ensure he actually hands it in!

My stance has always been this.

If they have had the time / opportunity / offer of help to do their homework in the given time, they take the consequences at school if not done. And I will make sure the teacher knows that I have fulfill my part of the bargain.

If the above conditions have not been met, I will write a note excusing them from their homework.

Good habits are easier to maintain if they're seeded early.

However, primary homework shouldn't be just about making good habits for later life. Primary homework should be about consolidation and enrichment, particularly in an overcrowded curriculum and particularly in those subjects that benefit most from regular revision at home.

The trouble is that too much homework is poor quality.

"A refuser". No such thing. Utter nonsense. School refusers, homework refusers, whatever next? A child does not get to refuse. They do as they are told. End of. Refuses to do homework? Force them to do it. Refuses school? Put them in the car, take them there, kicking and screaming if necessary.

We are a generation of panderers, dictated to by children. It's absolutely ludicrous. Instil some bloody discipline.

I wouldn't punish at home if they were punished at school for things like talking I'd just use "the disappointed lecture chat" but if it was because of refusing to do homework then I'd support the school and punish at home too because the refusal happened at home.

gatehouse - that is a very good summary of how we worked with ds.

We provide the time and the place and help if needed. If he didn't do it, then he has to explain to school and suffer consequence.

fabirca - I have never 'pandered' to my kids.

But after weekend after weekend of what I have described in the previous post, and weekend after weekend of our relationship with our son being massively influenced by the fact that his whole weekend was about punishment over not doing a piece of primary school homework, then we decided that his and our well being was being too adversely effected.
In the end 30 minutes of maths that he could do with his eyes shut, (so not actually necessary in terms of consolidation) was simply not worth 48 hours of arguments, discipline and punishment.

What exactly would you do to 'force' them to do it? Given that all of the methods described on this thread did not work?

However, as I said, you are obviously a perfect parent, and none of your children have ever refused to do anything. I bow to your greater knowledge.

Fabrica I actually don't agree.

Obviously discipline is needed but there is a world of difference between doing as you're told, and doing the right thing.

I hope I'm teaching children are learning to make the right choices, not follow what I say blindly.

I think DS needs some firmer guidance though, which I'm trying to give him - hence starting the post.