To think that the 'Calais Camp' situation needs to be resolved ASAP!

[Kreacherelf]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

This is just getting ridiculous now. France need to take this problem to the EU and ask for help dealing with it immediately. It has gone on for too long and needs to stop.

I don't know what the answer is. I think the UK should take anyone under 18, and their family members. Other than that, everyone else should have to apply for asylum in France or risk arrest. Not a perfect solution, but the only one I have.

It is on the channel 4 news facebook page Bill. There is no 'context' that makes hitting people carrying children and forcing them to kneel in mud acceptable. I am sure the Nazis justified their behaviour in similar ways, as may many that treat others as though they are subhuman.

They didn't have to beat people. They didn't have to hit people carrying children. They didn't have to terrify the children there. These methods cannot be justified because they control people.

One European? There have been many instances of brutality and coercion used against refugees, often justified by arguments that it is done to maintain control, order and borders. What is more worrying, is that this brutality is not merely carried out by random individuals, but condoned by officals and governents.

Violence and traumatic abuse of children is not a natural and inevitable consequence of a border being violated. Borders may be violated, but beating people infront of children is morally indefensible, as if beating and robbing them which occurs in Bulgaria. Beating people holding children is not a correct way of defending a border. Hungary's neglect and mistreatment of refugees cannot be justified by saying it defends a border.

We shouldn't blind children to defend borders, nor deliberately starve them and let their children be born dead. Neither should we allow children to be locked in awful conditions, to be woken up and counted by armed guards every night.

None of this violent and coercive behaviour makes any of us safer. It simply signals what may be done to us when we there is another crisis or catastrophe, or when we appear to threaten order.

As Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority shows, people willdo horrible things when they are 'obeying orders.' Being ordered to do something by an authority doesn't make it right.

I favour the human race. I object to desperate people being dehumanised as an 'enemy'.

Link to ch 4 news fbook so you can't infer I'm lying about the source Bill.

www.facebook.com/Channel4News/?fref=ts

emily, yes, link please. I've looked extensively on their page and can't find it. Which is a shame as I would have been very interested to read the context it was in.

Regardless, it's interesting that you replied only on the minor point of where the video came from. And you have ignored the question of why your favoured races commit acts in isolation, but the acts of one person amongst another race instantly show that entire race is descending into extremism.

It's interesting how you ignore questions that you can't answer without casting yourself in an unfavourable light. Or answer a different question. It reminds me of politicians being interviewed. It's almost like you've had media training....

Refugees attack children too Emily, care to comment?
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/terrified-scots-school-kids-attacked-7153720#vwVSyFAbj2ryko7U.97

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of seeing Emily's posts. I no longer read them. She's doing her "cause," whatever that is, more harm than good.

Juneau, not sure again what relevance where I live has to do anything with dehumanising language or brutal behaviour toward refugees?

Vertigo, you invented lies about my other half and made strange comments about my other online activity. That was why your comment was deleted.

Bill, you can search 'Macedonia refugees' on there and it comes up.

If that's your truth you hold it close. I am feeling hungry and going to have my roast chicken.

Oh believe me, it has PLENTY of relevance. You live in the most anti-immigration nation in Europe and you're on here slagging off the UK and its people for not stepping up. I, for one, find that very revealing.

There is a context emily. A context where border police are still allowed to make the most cursory checks to see who is entering and what they're carrying. I'm not massively keen on the idea of terrorists, guns, chemical weapons and even dirty bombs being sneaked into Europe and would still like some kind of vague pretence at attempts not to just open the borders and allow anybody in no questions asked. So, yes, when 7,000 people are trying to storm a border because they don't want to wait to be checked then, yes, I do want them to be stopped and I think it is perfectly reasonable context for force to be used.

And incidentally your agonising about children suggests that you would approve the use of children as human shields for any acts of illegality. I think there's a fairly solid argument that parents who storm a border with their children hold part of the responsibility if their children witness what happens when an illegal storming of borders takes place.

No one condones people being hurt although if people break the law then they run the risk of that just the same as if they break into your house you have a right to defend yourself. Most British people are pretty tolerant of all kinds of different people but all states may defend their borders. Arguably that is the most important reason any of us pay taxes.

Hungary may need better fences. It has a right to put up a fence just as we don't have to fill in the Channel - Use to be filled in - it was called doggerland and our (mine nayway) ancestors lived on the land which is now sea and when ice ages came across the UK we retreated across it.

By the way I am currently in Mexico so the parallels there with attempts to get to the USA for a better life economically are apt in the case of some refugees as is the history - the Spaniards arriving, their impact on the Mayans etc

Communication is always sensible - it is how we stop wars and get on with each other so I support the measures in Germany to tell migrants how to behave at swimming pools. If you don't know the rules you might not realise.
From The Times:

"Public pools in Germany have begun handing out flyers bearing cartoons intended to show migrants how to behave after receiving complaints about offensive and dangerous behaviour.

The new arrivals are warned not to harass women, wear underwear rather than swimming trunks and dive in at the deep end if they cannot swim. The illustrations have German captions with subtitles in English and Arabic.

Staff at a public pool in Zwickau, 190 miles south of Berlin, recently ejected a male migrant for engaging in a sex act in a whirlpool. A group of female asylum seekers were also told to leave after at least one of them used a training pool as a lavatory.

In Siegen, near Cologne, women bathers were forced to hide in a changing room after a group of 25 migrant men became “visibly excited” by their presence. In Bornheim, near Bonn, asylum seekers were banned for several days from the public pool after reports of obscene gestures made towards female swimmers. A pool in Berlin has limited the number of migrants allowed in at any one time because so many have had to be rescued after jumping into the deep end despite being unable to swim.

New arrivals in Bavaria have been given leaflets produced by the state’s public broadcaster, Bayerischer Rundfunk, with 14 cartoons illustrating appropriate behaviour towards women, children and gay couples. One shows two men holding hands, with the advice: “In Germany, homosexuals are allowed to show their sexual preference in public.” "

Bill, a baton isn't a cursory checks. It is degrading and frightening brute force.

'And incidentally your agonising about children suggests that you would approve the use of children as human shields for any acts of illegality'.

Bit of a leap. I disapprove of arguments that defend beating people because of the misaken belief it protects our safety.

'I think there's a fairly solid argument that parents who storm a border with their children hold part of the responsibility if their children witness what happens when an illegal storming of borders takes place'.

So they're responsible for being beaten and forced to kneel in the mud? That's not a solid argument, it's a weak one based in the lowest of beliefs, that we need violence and savagery to solve complex problems in the 21st cenury.

Juneau, you don't know which nation I live in, however I will say there is an insane and hysterical torrent of hatred here for a people that do not makeup 1 per cent of the population. I am British and do think The UK and Europe should step up.

Still nothing to say on the refugees who attacked the school bus in Calais Emily? You know the the ones you think we should allow into the UK.

Just been reading in the Independent about the group of masked men who have apparently just stormed through Stockholm station beating up refugees, including children. Apparently they were giving out leaflets giving details of what they intended to do :(

Here is the Daily Mail in 1938 talking about Jews and Germans fleeing the Nazis.

Does is not sound familiar?

The writer is more concerned with protecting our borders than asking - Why? What are these people fleeing from?

I don't see people asking that on this thread either? I see a lot of unfounded assumptions about their character, motives and experiences, and little intelligent questioning - why is this happening?

The article says:

"The way stateless Jews and Germans are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. I intend to enforce the law to the fullest."

In these words, Mr Herbert Metcalde, the Old Street Magistrate yesterday referred to the number of aliens entering this country through the 'back door' -- a problem to which The Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.

The number of aliens entering this country can be seen by the number of prosecutions in recent months. It is very difficult for the alien to escape the increasing vigilance of the police and port authorities.

Even if aliens manage to break through the defences, it is not long before they are caught and deported.

The greatest of their difficulties is employment" [clipping cuts off]

While you tell yourself it's because people want our benefits, they selfishly neglect their children to chase jobs in the UK, that they could easily be housed in France if they wanted, that they have abandoned their families, that they're not refugees they're migrants who are prepared to break our laws, that any reasonable person would have stayed in Syria / Turkey / wherever etc etc - you are not getting to the truth.

You are not putting yourself in their shoes and asking

• What are they running from?
• What horrors have they experienced?
• Why are they afraid of the authorities (in France and elsewhere)?
• How have the government managed to cock up the provision of shelter so badly than even freezing cold families in tents don't see them as a better option
• Has our government done anything to make this situation better or worse in the first place?
• How can we help them?

Do you not think it would have been better if the Daily Mail had asked those questions about the Jews and Germans fleeing Germany in 1938?

(And please don't invoke Godwin's Law. This is relevant, not internet bullshit. Plenty of people have drawn parallels between the kinds of xenophobia present on this thread and the rise of fascism in the 1930s, including Anne Frank's sister.)

emily, I never said being beaten with a baton was a cursory check. I said that at least cursory checks were justified. And that when 7,000 people are trying to avoid even the most cursory checks by forcibly storming a border then, yes, force to stop them doing that is justified.

And yes, I do think they have some responsibility for what happened. They tried to storm a border and met with a predictable response. Force (storming a border) will be met by force.

What would you suggest emily instead of force? They'd already asked them to process through the borders legally and in cooperation with the border forces and their response was to storm the border.

Ultimately emily you just want any pretence of border control abandoning. You don't care if that means someone walks into Europe with Uranium or Polonium or anything else. You couldn't give a shit if a region of Europe is devastated by a dirty bomb, because most of the people who will die or be hurt are from a race you don't care about and view as expendable. You have a fit about one of your pet race being hit by a baton, but you couldn't care less about real risks to large numbers of people if they were born in the wrong place for you to care.

And don't give me the 'It'll never happen, nothing comes through except genuine refugees' shit. Because the Paris attacks blew that wide open.

My heart sank when I read of those thugs attacking in Sweden. Horrific behaviour. But sadly, I do think that that is what can happen when politicians ignore the general public's concerns about the sheer numbers of migrants they allow in in a short space of time. Successful integration and acceptance is best achieved if people/infrastructure are allowed time to absorb.

Intersting juxtaposition of posts from ItsJustaUsername and Tholeonagain.

ItsJustaUsername implies that, based on kind of behaviour demonstrated in the Calais incident, anyone reasonable would not want any people from the camps in Calais in the UK (have I read that right ItsJustaUsername ?)

The Calais bus incident was reported like this:

"35 Portree High School students and nine adults on the bus were travelling through France on their way home from Italy in the early hours of Sunday. An outer window of double glazing on the coach was broken as it passed through the incident ...

No-one on the bus was hurt and the party of pupils has arrived in Skye."

Tholeonagain mentions an incident in Stockholm where 200 (presumably) white Swedes assaulted people, including children.

The Stockholm incident was reported like this:

"A mob of black-clad masked men went on a rampage in and around Stockholm's main train station last night beating up refugees and anyone who did not look like they were ethnically Swedish ... Before the attack, the group of 200 people handed out xenophobic leaflets".

The first incident is pretty bad, but the second incident is absolutely shocking. Organised, premeditated, racially motivated violence, including towards children.

ItsJustaUsername I'm interested. Based on the story in Sweden, are you now wary of Swedish people? Do you think we should not let them into the UK either because they are prone to mass violence?

If not, why not?

Tangerine they'll probably ignore your daily mail clipping as much as they've ignored my earlier links to similar arguments. It's something they don't want to hear or know. It's wilfull ignorance.

I doubt anyone on here would support those who have carried out these attacks

but many on here can understand how tensions are rising, and how some will take advantage of this and how many are feeling so frustrated with what is happening to their communities that some feel they have to take action as their government's are not listening to them - but that is not an excuse for their violence

what happened on NYE was not down to how they (migrants/asylum seekers) were being treated or an act of revenge it was how they felt they could treat women

and it has been reported straight away funny that

would I allow Swedish people to come here yes, most will be coming either on business or on holiday so yes and if they were to break the law then they should be dealt with

they are not coming or trying to come here to claim asylum

"don't give me the 'It'll never happen, nothing comes through except genuine refugees' shit. Because the Paris attacks blew that wide open."

Bullshit !

All eight of the named attackers were born in Europe.

Here is what we know about the Paris Attackers and their accomplices:

Abdelhamid Abaaoud - described as the "ringleader"
Age: 27
Born: Belgium

Hasna Aitboulahcen
Age: 26
Born: France (Paris)

Salah Abdeslam
Age: 26
Born: Brussels

Ibrahim Abdeslam
Age: 30
Born: Brussels

Ismael Omar Mostefai
Age: 29
Born: France (South of Paris)

Samy Amimour
Age: 28
Born: France

Ahmad Dahmani
Age: 26
Born: Belgium

Bilal Hadfi
Age: 20
Born: France

There are some others that haven't been identified yet. But the list above is pretty clear! They were European!

If you think they came in with refugees, you need to check your sources, you are being manipulated with propaganda!

I meant to add - link for Paris attackers article