To think that the 'Calais Camp' situation needs to be resolved ASAP!

[Kreacherelf]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

This is just getting ridiculous now. France need to take this problem to the EU and ask for help dealing with it immediately. It has gone on for too long and needs to stop.

I don't know what the answer is. I think the UK should take anyone under 18, and their family members. Other than that, everyone else should have to apply for asylum in France or risk arrest. Not a perfect solution, but the only one I have.

emilybohemia

'Look at how many native Brits don't obey'

You're quite right - we won't be obeying any longer!

Examples of dehumanising language on this thread:

• the use of the term 'sharp elbowed' to describe people who risk their lives on boats in search of any sort of a future, as though they were pushing others out of the way in search of bargains in the January sale.
• the automatic assumption up thread that the father of the child alone in Calais who had reached the UK without him had abandoned him, rather than assuming he couldn't face asking him to jump on the back of a lorry and was hoping to bring him over safely later.
• the awful post about how we can't accept any refugees, because they 'all marry their cousins and will have inbred deformed children we will have to look after. '

You don't have to agree that we should take all or even any refugees into the UK to talk about them with compassion and respect.

Thole The only person who has used the words 'deformed' or 'inbred' on this thread is you. Well done. Why should we take anything you have to say on the subject of dehumanising language seriously after that blatant lie?

That is what one poster was saying, I haven't copied exactly because it would take too long to find in all these pages. But it was definitely what they meant. I am not suggesting everybody else agrees with them, though nobody challenged it at the time.

Yup, I just checked for 'deformed' and 'inbred' as well.
Point of fact though, cousin marriage DOES lead to an increase in genetic illness. It's a really, really bad idea. And it is practised by some communities in the UK: there was a television documentary about it some years by a British-Pakistani reporter. It was sobering.

Yes of course it is a bad idea. But using it as a reason not to take Syrian refugees?? really??

Oh come on, Lumela, you know we're not allowed to talk about that. The huge suffering caused to innocent children (and to their parents) by marriage practices that are outlawed in many countries (for very good reasons) are of no significance compared to political correctness.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7957808/700-children-born-with-genetic-disabilities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html

But using it as a reason not to take Syrian refugees?? really??

Why should we believe anyone did so when your recollection of the discussion is clearly so faulty? Some advice: when in a hole, stop digging.

kesstrel, the question was why cousin marriage might be a reason not to take Syrian refugees?

I don't see the connection between a practice in mainly poor communities, and whether people from that country are offered asylum.

What is the connection? I can't see one.

Other than yet another attempt to dehumanise?

Ah you got me. I made it up just to prove a point. Obvs.

I'm not suggesting you made it up.

I'm asking if you accept it is true - what has it got to do with whether we accept refugees?

What difference does it make?

Oops apologies Tholeonagain I thought you were kesstrel!

When in fact I'd like to know why kesstrel is making an issue out of cousin marriage!

kesstrel, the question was why cousin marriage might be a reason not to take Syrian refugees?

Sorry, WHAT? AFAIAA the issue currently under discussion here is whether anyone on this thread actually raised that question other than Thole and now yourself!

Personally, I don't think anyone did.

Thole
I made it up just to prove a point. Why would anyone think that? It is far more likely that, like most people's, your memory is not as perfect as you seem to believe it is. This has already been demonstrated by the fact that no one used the words you accused them of using.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12130175/The-plight-of-Syrian-refugees-is-not-on-a-par-with-Jews-fleeing-the-Nazis.html

When in fact I'd like to know why kesstrel is making an issue out of cousin marriage!

Ah, I see. Apparently mentioning 700 children born with preventable genetic disabilities every year is "making an issue out of" something quite trivial. That was the same reaction the Labour MP Ann Cryer got when she tried to open a discussion on this issue 10 years ago.

Right, I'm sorry, but that's it. I'm not interested in a discussion with people who are more concerned with scoring PC points than they are with preventing unnecessary suffering.

kesstrel I am not trying to make PC points. Nor am I trying to deny that we should ignore preventable genetic conditions. You are imagining meaning in my posts that is not there.

What I am trying to do is to understand why you are talking about it?

This thread is about refugees, and Calais yes? So why are we talking about cousin marriage? What is the connection?

That is my question. Nothing to do with scoring "PC points"

Thole Really struggling to see how those things are dehumanising? Wondering if I am missing something?
How is describing someone as being 'sharp elbowed' dehumanising? Even the January sales analogy you use are very human traits...might be selfish traits but very human ones.
The father leaving his son ...of course he abandoned him or at least potentially abandoned him. If it was because he didn't want to risk his son's life ...think that through. If he thought his son's life was at risk he must have realised his own life was also at risk. Leaving the very real possibility that he would die and his son would be left alone at the camp forever. And all the time he could have claimed asylum in France for them both. (Although his actions could be described as thoughtless or stupid rather than selfish I guess.) And actually thinking about it taking unaccompanied children from Calais can only encourage that risk to be taken.
Finally someone else has tackled the 'inbred' thing - I also can't remember seeing how that was written and not sure how it relates to the Syrian refugees.
But it is one of the things that is seems couldn't be talked about through fearing being seen as racist. Inbreeding within closed communities is a real problem. The orthodox Jewish community has had a long standing screening program for Tay Sach's disease (and others) to reduce some of the impact. Confining your gene pool (cousin marriage for instance) is never a good idea. (Research has been done looking at human attraction (through smell/pheromones) and an innate need to diversify the gene pool - the attraction of strangers in a community...long time since I came across it, might have been disproved but still an interesting concept.)

None of those examples are dehumanising.

Vaguely critical yes, open to debate yes, but not dehumanising.

The outrage and backlash ohfor is from hate and prejudice, not from immigrants not respecting culture. Look at how many native Brits don't obey and hae no respect for anyone, it's hardly an immigrant thing.

i think this is one of the big points you keep missing.

If the country cannot cope/effectively deal with its own - home grown, crime, sex assaults etc. Is it wise to add to the problem by importing it?

No. The government has a duty to its citizens FIRST and Merkel has let down those girls.

If you have robust police, if you have extra on hand to deal with new volume of people, then maybe allow some more in but if you don't, and if you cant magic all this extra funding and police out of thin air, your exposing your citizens to un acceptable assault.

I also don't understand how some posters are failing to see the difference between the actual real Syrian refugees and the economic migrants.

• the automatic assumption up thread that the father of the child alone in Calais who had reached the UK without him had abandoned him, rather than assuming he couldn't face asking him to jump on the back of a lorry and was hoping to bring him over safely later

^^ Eh????

Is that what you would do?

I fail to see how any other conclusions can be drawn? There is simply no way we would leave our young daughters alone in calais, or - perhaps maybe calais isnt that bad after all? Which is it?

Bonkers!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423959/No-link-migrant-crisis-wave-New-Year-sex-attacks-Arab-North-African-men-women-Cologne-say-EU-leaders.html

The exposure of the minutes by The Telegraph comes after Swedish police revealed they have dealt with around 5,000 incidents involving migrants since October.

Two bomb threats, four rapes and more than 550 assaults were among the reported offences officers were called to, according to data obtained by SvD.

They also attended 450 fights, 194 violent threats and 58 fires involving migrants or asylum seekers.

It also comes after 22-year-old aid worker Alexandra Mezher was knifed to death at the child migrant centre where she worked in Molndal, Sweden, on Monday.

A 15-year-old boy from Somalia appeared in court on Wednesday charged with murder.

Around 1 million refugees are now thought to have entered Europe illegally.

None of us know the exact details of that case but I think there is something unpleasant about assuming the worst about an obviously desperate parent, from the comfort of our warm safe homes. I don't know what I would do in his situation, because I don't know exactly what it was.
Does anybody know how many Syrian refugees France has actually accepted? I didn't think it was many.

Thole - stats are here:

Less than a lot of other European countries but still vastly more than the UK

www.dw.com/image/0,,18723820_401,00.jpg

I said that inter marriage (i.e. cousins) may cause genetic problems in response to another poster. It may not be to do with the Syrian refugees directly but are we not allowed to talk about if and if so why not?

To me it should not be happening in the UK and it is an example of immigrants not assimilating IMO and being more concerned about money than their children.

No one 'hates' anyone, I just don't want anymore economic migrants who are unskilled here and I think the UK has been more than generous over the past 20 years' with their resources. I think we should have been more selective in the first place we would not have a housing crisis and bursting schools etc and having to concrete over the countryside.

"None of those examples are dehumanising."

The dehumanising language on this thread is utterly depressing.
From this thread:

• "violent thugs"

• abandoned his wife and children to "save his skin"

• "using their women and children to appeal to our better natures"

• "Then, they ALL come in. And there will be NO stopping them"

• young Muslim men will treat my daughter and her friends with contempt

• they are allowing their children to be beaten

• They lie

• The children will be classed as SEN

• our cultures can't live together.

• rape and assault women

• "unemployable people"

• "millions of savages

• refugee children die because their parents choose to put them in danger

• more likely to be "mass sex attackers"

• "they believe they can have as much sex as they like here"

• They purposefully put their children in danger. They should be prosecuted

• "This isn't migration, this is a hostile invasion"

• "greedy, selfish, irresponsible parents"

• "more concerned with getting somewhere they can work illegally than keeping their children warm, fed, clothed, educated and healthy"