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Original poster

To think that the 'Calais Camp' situation needs to be resolved ASAP!

999 replies

Kreacherelf · 24/01/2016 14:20

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

This is just getting ridiculous now. France need to take this problem to the EU and ask for help dealing with it immediately. It has gone on for too long and needs to stop.

I don't know what the answer is. I think the UK should take anyone under 18, and their family members. Other than that, everyone else should have to apply for asylum in France or risk arrest. Not a perfect solution, but the only one I have.

OP posts:
SnowBells · 29/01/2016 07:22

Thole

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who want to just accept asylum seekers and (apparently) economic migrants in Calais who have not been checked out! It's bloody difficult to send people away once they're inside the country.

I'm all for taking some people in, but not everyone who wants to come to the UK. I would say 'no' to economic migrants, 'no' to people who have gotten rid of their fingerprints, 'no' to people who have no consideration for western values and 'no' to those who can't leave at least some of their culture behind, because they will never assimilate.

Tholeonagain · 29/01/2016 07:57

If we could agree a quota system all those issues could be considered. People who speak a countries home language, for example, would have a better chance of being assimilated easily. Yes, economic migrants would need to be returned. I would still try to do this with as respectfully as possible.

WidowWadman · 29/01/2016 07:59

Why should people be assimilated rather than integrated?

Tholeonagain · 29/01/2016 08:14

Sorry I don't understand the distinction?

Tholeonagain · 29/01/2016 08:18

I guess assimilated can be used to mean become the same? Obviously I don't mean that. I just mean fit in.... Obviously how well that is done has as much to do with the home community as the newcomers...

OTheHugeManatee · 29/01/2016 08:22

Widow - I think people are using 'integrated' and 'assimilated' fairly interchangeably here to mean 'cognisant of and happy to live by UK social norms'. I'm not sure opening the multiculturalism vs assimilation can of worms debate here is going to benefit anyone.

kesstrel · 29/01/2016 08:34

Integrated or not, many in the UK are becoming increasingly concerned by the way in which practices such as FGM, forced marriage, and double-cousin marriage continue to be prevalent in some communities. There is a feeling that we have been letting some of our citizens down (especially our female citizens) by historically ignoring this in the name of multi-culturalism.

In addition, some in the Muslim community argue that second-generation children are being damaged by the feeling of being torn between two cultures, leading to a need to feel they belong somewhere and that this is one of the factors pushing them toward the culture of Islamist extremism. The greater the divide between the two cultures, the greater the potential problem.

Experience in other countries is that by the third generation, immigrant groups have largely adopted the values and customs of the host culture, although still retaining a sense of their roots. While this is happening here, there is also a significant group where the process seems to be going in the other direction, with some of the second/third generation becoming less accepting of British culture, and some moving on to Islamist extremism. This is a worrying situation for any country, given the importance of social stability and cohesion.

kesstrel · 29/01/2016 08:36

Sorry, Huge - wrote and posted before I saw your post! You are probably right.

Woodhill · 29/01/2016 08:45

the inter marriage also impacts on our education system with illness and genetic disorders being inherited sometimes and then the student often needing alot of care.

Woodhill · 29/01/2016 08:51

also once the people arrive it is very difficult to send them anywhere as they often destroy their papers so better not to in the first place.

I think we have accepted too many economic migrants already. The beds in sheds is very real in London and this needs to be looked at.

Also why are the migrants more important than anyone else and what will they give to us rather than us constantly giving to them.

louisatwo · 29/01/2016 08:56

I am relieved to see that finally the issue of people lying about their age in order to be identified as children is being identified.
I have personal experience of dozens of (mainly) young men, obviously in their late teens and early 20s, having arrived in the UK and being placed in secondary schools, generally in years 9 - 11. In London schools this has been prevalent for many years. The schools then struggle to manage their needs as well as facing significant challenges with some of their attitudes to violence and girls for example. I was amazed to see how many of these young men had immediate access to specialist lawyers who promoted their interests and rights to a school place (despite them obviously being men as opposed to adolescents).
There are tests that can be used - bone density, teeth etc but they're controversial and their accuracy is often challenged. Nevertheless, we need to be more prepared to challenge this - too many unaccompanied minors are actually men lying about their age.

Some really thoughtful and insightful posts on this thread about such a situation - thank you.

SnowBells · 29/01/2016 08:58

The problem with the word "integrate" is that it puts a lot of the responsibility onto the home community. Yes, they can integrate into the community, but it's also on us to integrate them... meaning we might have to accept all their customs, even the things kesstrel mentioned. It implies they should be able to live here almost like they lived at home.

The word "assimilate" infers that they should take more of our values instead. And this really is needed to avoid a fragmented society that can give rise to fundamentalism.

I hate the fact, for example, that Italy had to cover up nude statues (?!?) for the Iranian president's visit. I hate the fact that he wouldn't even dine with his French counterpart if there was wine on the table. I mean... WTF... you're visiting a country, you can't expect that country to bend to your wishes!!!

See, one of my closest friends is Muslim. She drinks wine. She lets me eat pork if I want to. She sends me Christmas cards. She definitely doesn't expect nude statues to be covered. And yet, her family is religious. They are people who live by our norms but haven't forgotten their roots. However, they are from the Commonwealth... and I guess that helps a lot.

juneau · 29/01/2016 09:18

accept our share of a Europe wide quota system

But why should we take any of them? Those who have arrived in Europe are the most resourceful, wealthy, fit and able. In other words, the most 'sharp elbowed'. By paying their way onto boats and marching across Europe they have bypassed all the normal systems put in place to allow migrants to move to Europe legally.

So why should any country in Europe be pressured into taking them? IMO they are the LEAST deserving of our compassion. Why should they get to queue-jump, just because they had the money to pay people smugglers to get them into Europe? Particularly when, if we take Sweden's figures as being representative, approx. half of them aren't even genuine asylum seekers, but economic migrants from Albania, Kosovo, Morocco, Algeria, and god only knows where, who've jumped on the bandwagon while Europe's borders hung wide open????

juneau · 29/01/2016 09:20

The brain-drain argument is also very relevant. That Spectator article from last August talked very eloquently about that issue - that if you give people the opportunity to leave it will be the most resourceful, clever, motivated people who do so - just the people that Syria will need when this war ends to rebuild the country and get its economy back on its feet.

OttiliaVonBCup · 29/01/2016 09:43

Integrate is voluntary, one group or person joins a bigger one.

Assimilate is passive, the person or group is taken over in the bigger one and it doesn't matter they themselves want it or not.

Woodhill · 29/01/2016 10:36

totally agree Junea and the BBCs reporting is so irritating and not impartial. All it does is fund the people smugglers.

I seem to remember this 20 years' ago at Sangatte.

angelos02 · 29/01/2016 10:57

They should fit in with our values. I wouldn't dream of going to another country to settle and not bend over backwards to fit in with their way of life. Be it what they wear, the language they speak, what they eat etc.

AllTheMadmen · 29/01/2016 11:08

I wouldn't dream of going to another country to settle and not bend over backwards to fit in with their way of life

Really? So In saudi you would get veiled up, not drink, not go out without male escort etc.

Un and Amnesty has said the women and children caught up in all this, are the most vulnerable, I think we should help them first.

AllTheMadmen · 29/01/2016 11:16

BILLSYKESDOG

"Yes I am. Absolutely. I have constantly seen you excuse, minimise or deny any crimes committed by migrants. You are in favour of reporting of them being restricted. You do not wish to discuss if there are any cultural factors or predjudices driving these crimes. When the Cologne attacks were reported you worked from the premise that your favoured groups (migrants) were beyond reproach and you refused to believe the crimes were committed by them even when it became obvious they were. When you had to admit they probably had you made excuses and minimised"

"Change the word 'migrants' to 'white' and that attitude can be transplanted to apply to lynchings in the Deep South. You make your judgements on how serious the crimes are, how aggrieved the victims should be and their right to be concerned about whether their attack had a base in culture or predjudice based on race. You are the racist Emily".

The whole post is stunning, but this has put into words how I feel.

TheNewStatesman · 29/01/2016 11:34

"Apparently this is another problem for Germany. The upside of them taking all these refugees was supposed to be the country gaining lots of skilled workers, but an initial assessment has discovered that most are completely unskilled and not suited to the labour shortages Germany is struggling with. That knee-jerk decision of Angela Merkel's is costing her country dear and I think it will bring her down."

Yup, even the Economist has finally admitted this.

With growing automation of low-skilled jobs, it is actually harder than ever to integrate low-skilled incomers.

I don't know what's going to happen.

I also don't know how I'm going to vote re BREXIT... if I get a vote, that is. (expat here).

januarybrown1998 · 29/01/2016 11:53

So In saudi you would get veiled up, not drink, not go out without male escort etc

Of course you would, because if you did not, you would be arrested (either by police or citizen's arrest) or beaten with sticks by the religious police.

I should know.

DG2016 · 29/01/2016 12:24

Yes, I was forced to cover up in Iran for example and not shake the hands of men etc. Anyway we are much more tolerant here which is why people want to live here and we are pretty nice to people of all kinds, probably more so than the French are but and it's a big bug we have a massive housing crisis in places like London and the people we might need are highly educated people with good English (we have no shortage of Romanians etc doing cleaning in London at the minimum wage).

On Brexit I want us to stay in the EU but out of the euro zone and out of what is left of Schengen ( as now) and I suspect the UK will vote for that. It has preserved peace in Europe having the EEC and nothing is more valuable than that. My generation is the first in 100 years not to have had a world war affecting many millions.

TheNewStatesman · 29/01/2016 12:29

Hmmm, the economic argument would sway me towards staying in, but the whole "EU has brought us peace!" argument is flapdoodle. Democracies do not go to war with each other, with or without the EU.

SnowBells · 29/01/2016 12:50

Really? So In saudi you would get veiled up, not drink, not go out without male escort etc.

Ehm... I knew a girl at uni whose family (blond, blue-eyes, etc.) moved around a lot while growing up. When she was a teenager, they were in Saudi Arabia. She wore the veil, etc. in public spaces.

Mind you, she learned to do really good eye makeup on the process. Grin