To think that the 'Calais Camp' situation needs to be resolved ASAP!

[Kreacherelf]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

This is just getting ridiculous now. France need to take this problem to the EU and ask for help dealing with it immediately. It has gone on for too long and needs to stop.

I don't know what the answer is. I think the UK should take anyone under 18, and their family members. Other than that, everyone else should have to apply for asylum in France or risk arrest. Not a perfect solution, but the only one I have.

Thanks Gingham.

"Wh shouldn't the choose where they want to live? They may have family where they want to go.

It amazes me how the most vulnerable, the very weakest and the most needy are being portrayed as greedy selfish vultures coming to grab all they can."

This could also be posted on a thread about the social cleansing of social housing tenants from the larger cities as well as a thread about the bedroom tax!

I am utterly dismayed by the comments on this thread. So many engaging in an exercise in dehumanising people who have suffered terribly, so you don't have to face what is happening.

"Those people fought and died to make their lives better - which has made our lives better - we wouldn't have what we have today if they could have upped and left and gone somewhere better"

WTF? The Tolpuddle Martyrs fought for better workers' rights yes, but what on earth has that got to do with people fleeing a war zone? This is what Syria looks like right now.

"It's ridiculous. If you are really so hard done by fleeing from a freakin' war you should be bloody happy to be somewhere where no missile is gonna hit you anytime soon. I mean seriously. WTF."

Yes, people really are that "hard done by". Do you not understand what has happened to Syria? See the picture above for a clue.

The refugees trying to get to the UK often have family here.

If you had to run for your life with the clothes you stood up in from the UK as it was being bombed to pieces, wouldn't you try to get to your friends / family abroad? I know I would.

YY tangerines How can you fight for rights in that situation.

It amazes me how the most vulnerable, the very weakest and the most needy are being portrayed as greedy selfish vultures coming to grab all they can.

Still putting words in people's mouths Emily, you are blatantly ignoring the fact that the weakest and most needy are still stuck in camps sourounding Syria etc, your also ignoring the fact that the camps have been built by themselves and your also ignoring that there are many reports coming from within the Calais camp that a majority are actual economic migrants.

People can have empathy and still be pragmatic, the narrative has moved on from just using emotive language.

The current situation needs a pragmatic approach, that means looking at it objectively whilst having empathy not only for those in the camps, but for everyone else.

I can't choose where I want to live. I live 300 miles from my family, home town, friends, the people I grew up with. Because it was simply to expensive for me to live in the South East anymore with a family.

That's tough shit. Sometimes you can't live in exactly the place you want to near exactly who you want to, but you cut according to your cloth. I am safe, I have a roof over my head. I'm not near my family. Obviously where I've been going wrong all these years is that I should have forced my children to live in a tent in January, not fed them and spent all day threatening people doing their jobs, trespassing and breaking and entering. Apparently then I'd get loads of sympathy.

There is no reason why they can't apply for asylum in France; France is signed up to the Geneva Convention on refugees. Unless they don't want bone scans they have in France because they want to con their way as minors. Or they know they can work in the black economy.

As far as children starving in camps, they can get help in France. France does not leave people who have applied for asylum destitute. They are entitled to accommodation and are actually paid more money than in the UK per week. They are entitled to healthcare and education.

If there are children starving in those camps it's because they have greedy, selfish, irresponsible parents who are more concerned with getting somewhere they can work illegally than keeping their children warm, fed, clothed, educated and healthy.

I think one solution might be to return/send them all to camps in Turkey and Jordan and then take the same number of families from the camps and resettle them in Europe. I know there are a million holes with this but it's the best solution I can see.

The migrants who have made it to Europe would be safe and not living in a war zone. It would take away the incentive to risk your life at sea. At the moment it's a case of survival of the fittest with those most physically able and with the money to pay people traffickers who make it to Europe and the least able and most needy left behind. This can't be right.

This is what they are entitled to in France:

news.sky.com/story/1528542/asylum-seekers-why-they-come-to-uk-and-france

And they are also free to travel to Germany from Calais. It's not far at all, and if they are Syrians they will automatically be accepted, fed and clothed.

The refugees trying to get to the UK often have family here.

refugees and often are key words here, slamming posters for wanting a pragmatic approach is doing the exact inverse of what you are trying to slate the other posters of doing.

Not everyone at Calais or trying to get in under the banner of 'refugee' are genuine, this has been proven, that doesn't mean we don't have empathy for genuine refugees trying to reach family, nor is it unacceptable to suggest that some who are genuinely fleeing war to seek refuge in the first safe country in which they arrive.

Your trying to extrapolate that everyone in Calais etc is fleeing war, while slating people that you think are extrapolating that the situation just economic migrants.

That film footage was horrific. How can anyone justify gathering in large gangs and then parade around the streets looking for innocent locals to attack. How does that help their cause? It makes them look like thugs who would turn to anger and violence to further their own cause. If that film footage is representative of the Calais camp migrants/refugees, I'm not surprised that the French are less than sympathetic towards them. And why would the UK want to allow more men like that into our country? We've got enough of our own as it is, without accepting more.

Tangerine - the comment about the Tolpuddle Martyrs etc was made when I was very clearly talking about ECONOMIC MIGRANTS. I suggest you read my post again carefully...
To quote myself
My argument against economic migrants is whilst I can see and understand and sympathise why they come they are the ones with the get up and go, the desire to makes things better, the ones that could make a difference in the countries they come from.
Refugees are a different issue... of course the Syrian refugees are in desperate need - but I can't see how it is in their interest for us 'to do a Germany' and say we'll take anyone who gets here.
All that means is the really vulnerable are left behind fending for themselves ...it encourages people smugglers and death by drowning....
Much better for them to stay in the camps in surrounding countries - but we do need to fund them - concentrate our efforts on making them more bearable and take the most vulnerable directly from those camps.

How can anyone justify gathering in large gangs and then parade around the streets looking for innocent locals to attack. How does that help their cause? It makes them look like thugs who would turn to anger and violence to further their own cause

Well your post is interesting ohforgodsake because its transpired its actually the hard left behind the riots and troubles in the camp, they have infiltrated much to the police and genuine charity workers dismay.

Its called No Borders, they enter the camp as volunteers, with donations, food etc for the migrants, but they have managed to get about 300 vulnerable young men under their influence.

Charity workers say about 4, 000 want nothing to do with them.

So, there you have it.

There was a really interesting post somewhere, I forget where saying its a Darwinian race of the fittest leaving the most vulnerable behind.

Out of sight out of mind .

Justanother, I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths, I've just seen two posts where people have said the people in Calais are 'cherry picking', 'shopping around' ,inferring they are greedy chancers. Labelling a group of people with negative characteristics has been done before at dark times in history. There is nothing prgmatic about irrationally labelling a group of people as greedy, dangerous and threatening.

Also, I'm not ignoring anything. I can't understand your stratiication of the weakest. It doesn't make sense when injured people are in Europe right now seeking refuge. The weak and the needy are already in Europe,somecarrying their injuries. Yes, many are in Syria too.

'the camps have been built by themselves'

Yes, no UNHCR, Red CRoss or aid from anyone. ? Should they not have any shelter? It reminds meof Orban actually, he didn't provide any shelter either.

'and your also ignoring that there are many reports coming from within the Calais camp that a majority are actual economic migrants

The majority of reports I read suggest that most people have escaped war, torture, evilregimes etc... Even if this is not the case, does seeking a more fortuitous life mean you should live like that?

Bill, words fail me. They had no other choice. They are not threatening anyone.

France is ignoring the Geneva Convention. So is he UK. Most of Europe seems to have pissed on it. Yes, it does leave people that have applied for asylum destitute. It is happening right now. You are in denial about that.

'If there are children starving in those camps it's because they have greedy, selfish, irresponsible parents who are more concerned with getting somewhere they can work illegally than keeping their children warm, fed, clothed, educated and healthy'.

This comment makes me ashamed to be human. You really have no idea and compare not being able to move to another region to their situation. There is no comparison.

Fake, you are very wrong, masses of refugees in Europe would certainly be living in a war zone if they hadn't left. There are many Syrians, Iraquis and Aghanistanis in Europe that left dangerous situations. Where on earth do you get your 'information' from?

Snowbells, so fleeing war or misery means you should be pleased to live in squalor in the cold with inadequate shelter and little food, where disease may break out, which hinders your health and safety, where neo Nazis attack and tear gas canisters are chucked in?

It didn't have to go that far. They could have gone to Jordan and have had a less perilous path to refugee status. They could have even gone to Germany (before the Cologne thing happened)!

It's holocaust memorial day. I suggest you try reading about how people were previously labelled as greedy, dangerous, selfish threats and what happened next.

I spent most of my years in education in Germany. As I said in a previous post, in pursuit of political correctness, we had to study the Third Reich for years on end. I probably know more about that part of German history than you.

How can anyone justify gathering in large gangs and then parade around the streets looking for innocent locals to attack

A lot of the marches have been instigated by the extreme left (swp, HnH, class war, open borders etc, even the odd unite banner etc), there isn't much joined up thinking going on in their activism.

There was a report last year on itv about a Bradford based charity pulling out of Calais.

Really Madmen? Well I never.A bit odd that there's been no mention of such a group infiltrating the camp, either on BBC news (which I appreciate is shite and biased but nevertheless) or on any other news channel that I've seen either. Was it the same hard left infiltrators who boarded the cross channel ferry recently ? And also were filmed throwing missiles at lorries that they had found themselves unable to breach? There does seem to be a lot more co ordinated violence and thuggish outbursts recently that I wouldn't imagine would help them in their mission to be accepted into the UK legally.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/british-anarchists-behind-stampede-calais-port-france-vows-crackdown-1539839

The riot that led to 50 migrants storming a ferry in Calais was driven by a group of radical British anti-capitalists, it has been reported.

Video footage has emerged where British voices are heard encouraging the migrants in the stampede on Saturday (23 January).

Calais police chief Gille Debove told The Sun that 90% of the people involved with No Borders were from Britain.

"They stir up the migrants and cause us a lot of problems. Last week they organised a blockade of the motorway near the Calais camp and the migrants used the chaos to get into trucks," he said. The group was said to have organised and co-ordinated the weekend attack on Facebook.

You mis read my post Emily.

Fake, you are very wrong, masses of refugees in Europe would certainly be living in a war zone

If they were sent from Europe to live in (better equipped) camps in Turkey/Jordan they who most certainly not be living in a war zone, unless you are saying Turkey and Jordan also have wars raging. Europe could then settle the most needy families already living in these camps who never had the money or health to make it here. Please read my post again and I apologise if it wasn't clear enough for you.

And before you say it, I know this is a rubbish and probably impossible plan, but please suggest a better one.

Snowbells in Germany refugee shelters are set on fire pretty much daily and you've got PEGIDA tosspots marching once a week. And that's not something which only started this year, anti immigrant violence has been on the up for a while. Not sure that it's be my place of choice in that situation.

Anyway, why should the UK have a get out card and leave the rest of Europe to deal with the people who have made it to continental Europe? I'm pretty sure if the UK was in the situation Greece is, Cameron would have been the first to ask the other European states to take their share.

Well buggermedays you live and learn, thanks Madmen I genuinely hadn't known that. You seem to a knowledgeable poster so I'll ask you another thing that has puzzled me for a while. Everyone agrees that the living conditions in the Calais jungle are dire but brand new purpose built facilities were built,very close by, at a cost of £20million. They have everything that could be required and the UN has confirmed that they provide more than adequate accommodation. But the migrants have flatly refused to move to the new accommodation,apparently stating that they don't like the look of them. I have raised this same question on previous threads in the hope that someone could possibly provide a genuine reason as to why people who have so little,would turn their backs on what appears to be a generous and genuine alternative.

Ohforgods do you have a source for that claim?

I'm not putting words in anyone's mouths, I've just seen two posts where people have said the people in Calais are 'cherry picking', 'shopping around' ,inferring they are greedy chancers.

2 posts aren't indicative of the general trend of the thread

Labelling a group of people with negative characteristics has been done before at dark times in history.

Whilst that is true, you are trying to insinuate that any comment you perseve as negative as broad brushing isn't actually helping the debate, and trying to invoke Godwins law is a little juvinile and shows you have nothing constructive to add other than emotive whataboutry

There is nothing prgmatic about irrationally labelling a group of people as greedy, dangerous and threatening

again, fixating on two posts and not even accepting that a pragmatic approach to this situation is needed shows more about you than I think you realise...