to be worried about my daughter's future safety in Europe as a young secular woman?

[rodriguez66]

I have a 6 year old daughter. I can't stop worrying about whether it will be safe for her in Europe in the future as a young woman after the sexual assaults all over Europe. I hate to think that she would not be able to enjoy the freedoms I take for granted as a woman and I do not want her to have to hide her femininity because some men cannot control themselves. I want her to be able to dress how she wants when she is older and be able to speak her mind without being scared. Is this completely irrational? My husband thinks I am worrying too much but obviously he is not a woman.

Pontypines I don't think anyone is suggesting Syrians are responsible for this, or genuine refugees. Most of the posts I have seen seem to largely blame men who are likely to be economic migrants from a number of countries where women are not respected in the same way they are here

If you read the Cologne threads you will find lots of sources, some of which you may agree are reputable.

I have read the Cologne threads. I didn't find the quality of linkage particularly good there either.

Anna - which "conservative estimates" are these? Anything that is actually factual?

This is part of the problem Pontipines. The lack of decent reporting. The right screams about it, the left is completely silent. Which is odd because normally there's a thousand, "these statistics are suspect because..." and "the attacks in Cologne were actually largely carried out by..." But there's none of that. Which leads to to believe that the left is silent for a reason. Don't want to report it. Which really worries me. Because I do think women's rights are being shoved further and further down the agenda.

I want good reporting and fact based journalism, which doesn't have an agenda that involves putting women last.

rodriguez can I ask why you included "secular" in your title?

Do you think that religious women are somehow exempt from sexual harassment and assult

Meh, it's because the same has been said about so many of us in the past and it's just used as an excuse to slaughter people and dispossess them. Irish, gypsies, Jews, slavs. Every group has it's bad elements and every group can be framed too. It's just the same old armaments game. This is all about the same stuff as WW2- certain powerful groups are feeling a bit demographically threatened because of all the crap they've done.

The posters from those threads are trying to get a petition together to force the government to try to debate this issue and put something in place to protect women's rights.

i am fairly sure sexual assault and rape are already crimes

It's important to separate the Syrian refugee issues from these attacks though. They're two separate issues IMO. There's no suggestion that recent refugees were responsible and in fact if you Google 'cologne attacks Syrians' you'll get a wealth of credible news reports of Syrian spokespeople denouncing what happened and how Syrians actually helped women that night.

It's also essential to recognise that refugees are humans too, in all their diversity and complexity. Amongst any group there will be as wide a spectrum of humanity as if you suddenly picked up everyone in Manchester and dumped them somewhere else.
Not everyone will be aggressive and dangerous, and not everyone will be grateful and law-abiding and on their best behaviour.That's without the added traumas that those peope have been subject to.

'That'shout '

That's without

FGS I'm sure there were arguments like this in history when a person migrated from one village to the next. Don't mistake the actions of a minority to be congruent with the majority.

Pontipines, the eurostat site puts applications from Syrians for asylum at 20% of all non EU applications. That a reliable enough source for you?

Crikey, lots of apologists on here today. OP, I share your concerns. We are going to be seeing more and more examples of failed integration. I've written to my mp, this should be kept current not brushed under the carpet because it is inconvenient and troublesome.

I think your use of the word 'apologists' to describe certain opinions on this thread is offensive.

It's like me saying 'gosh plenty of racists on this thread today'

I share your concerns.

I'm amazed at the people who think because there is already violence against women, we shouldn't bother ourselves about thousands - yes thousands - of reports of sexually motivated attacks against women on NYE.

I used to describe myself as left wing. I read the Guardian. Then I realised that it meant that everyone else's rights now trump the right of women to have the same basic freedoms as everyone else.

The liberal left is so up its arse that it doesn't know what to say to these developments. So it has quite literally denied their occurrence - until forced to discuss it - and has now buried its head again.

To those who describe the OP as "silly". If her daughter was 17 and about to interail around Europe, would you still describe her so? For that is a mere decade away and this problem ain't going anywhere soon

armchair I think you make a good point. But we are currently embarking on a huge social experiment with a "let's cross our fingers attitude".

If that experiment fails, then girls today will pay the price

For me, the worry is not just because these assaults happened. It's that given that they happened, I would have assumed that women could have counted on the unquestioning support of the authorities and media, be they left or right leaning, and it turns out that is not the case.

Apparently not countess . There has been an enormous amount of dumbing down in the German press regarding the sex assaults, and we can only guess as to the reason for that. But minimising the subject won't make it go away, no matter how unpalatable it is for some. Question is, how do we think it would be reported and handled in the UK? Judging from some of the naysayers on this thread, I do wonder.

Yanbu. I worry too. I travelled freely and safely and lived in Germany as a young woman. My German friends tell me they're very frightened at the uncontrolled influx of culturally incompatible men and the breakdown in law and order in their previously safe home. Cologne is the tip of the iceberg. But all you YABU people, I suppose you know better.

YANBU. I read all 6 Cologne threads and then went off to do more research - largely You Tube videos and commentary. I've watched widely, to try not to be corrupted by bias.

I now think that Europe is on a dangerous trajectory. It seems that more than a few of the young men arriving as migrants have an extreme sense of entitlement, demanding money and being dissatisfied with food and accommodation. There is a lack of humility and gratitude. There are some that consider that their principal aim is to do the work of Allah. Videos show migrants en route to Germany running in packs and being violent and disrespectful. Another of migrants on a train with rallying cries of Allahu Akbar, more a war cry than a prayer. There is a video of an Imam exhorting the young men to go to Europe and procreate. There seems to be a mindset that is primed for disrespect.

It's also a numbers game - if more men of this ilk arrive, then the assaults will increase and there is a possibility that the police will lose their power.

My daughter is in Greece, working with migrants. I want her home.

The young men who perpetrated Cologne attacks seem mostly to be economic migrants from North Africa, not actual refugees at all. It's been suggested that young men from Morocco, Tunisia, etc who can afford to buy a plane ticket to Turkey and then pay people smugglers, and who are happy to jump the queue over real refugees, are in many cases likely to come from criminal or semi-criminal backgrounds. The likelihood that their asylum applications will fail and they will be sent home might also make them more likely to feel they need to get what they can out of their adventure while the getting is good.

Kesstrel that's true but in fact very few of those up for deportation have actually been deported. It's a lengthy difficult process and this is another aspect to the intensifying problem.

Mimi - Spot on. You just have to look at tormentil's comment, which is basically the same sort of dehumanising filth that was said about the Jews in 1930's Germany.

"Running in packs" What an interesting phrase. I wonder what sort of portrayal it intends to give?

Saying Allahu Akbar is known as takbir. It is NOT a war cry, it is said at times of celebration and at times of hardship as a remembrance of God.

Refugees saying Allahu Akbar on a train would have been celebrating being on the relative ease of a train as opposed to their previous hardships of deathtrap boats and walking hundreds of miles across land.

Not making a "war cry".

I'm disgusted by how many people here are more worried about scoring points than anything.

These attacks are crimes. Conspiracy to commit a crime is an additional crime.
Why havent these crimes been tackled by the local police?

That is the issue.

IPityThePontipines can you tell me how you would describe this then
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KYjo-YQBc

The problem is that all of these men are coming to Europe very quickly and many are harbouring views on women that are disgusting and inhumane. There is no education provided on how to behave, they are not threatened with sanctions if they do not adhere to our rules and way of life. Everyone has the right to live without sexual violence and I think the fact that so many of these men leave their wives/children in the war torn country that they are fleeing says a lot about whose lives they value more. The left need to understand that there is a serious problem and it is cultural - many do not view women as equal citizens, they see them as sex objects. I worry about what Europe will be like for women in a few years if this issue isn't addressed properly.