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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be worried about my daughter's future safety in Europe as a young secular woman?

191 replies

rodriguez66 · 23/01/2016 18:53

I have a 6 year old daughter. I can't stop worrying about whether it will be safe for her in Europe in the future as a young woman after the sexual assaults all over Europe. I hate to think that she would not be able to enjoy the freedoms I take for granted as a woman and I do not want her to have to hide her femininity because some men cannot control themselves. I want her to be able to dress how she wants when she is older and be able to speak her mind without being scared. Is this completely irrational? My husband thinks I am worrying too much but obviously he is not a woman.

OP posts:
OhforGodsake · 23/01/2016 23:32

Agree to some extent Ubik but when large groups of young men gather, with the sole intention of sexually harassing women, it surely doesn't matter where they originate from. Surely it matters that, when caught, that they are punished severely enough to deter others.

ChampaleSocialist · 23/01/2016 23:32

KERALA1 You get my vote. Its not racist, the law is the law.

Our politicians work for us or get voted out.

Ubik1 · 23/01/2016 23:41

The op didn't mention the mass sexual Assaults in Europe in her first post. I think that life will certainly change in some parts of Europe as authorities and localities adapt. They will have to get better at enforcing the law.

I still worry more about sexual assault from men drunk coming out of pubs or in nightclubs etc

I have s six year old daughter and the general sexualised culture would be the main concern for me rather than refugee men.

BaldHedgehog · 23/01/2016 23:41

After the heartbreaking pictures of drown children Europe has opened the door to refugees.These refugees come from completely different culture,culture incompatible with Europe.

Scary thing is that in the name of "tolerance" some of the shennanigans commited by the refugees are being covered up.I don't know why,maybe because if you openly state that you're against such culture you're called a racist and a homophobe?I don't care,I don't want these people coming to Europe and I'm going to be vocal about it.

Imagine opening the door to your house to take a male lodger who on the next day assaults your female family member because that's the way he was brought up.Would you accept it in the name of tolerance? Hell no,open the door and shove him out of your house with a swift kick up his backside.

Sadly demographics are the clue,unfortunately as their population rises all across Europe the assaults on women will become more frequent.

Speak about it,actively say "no" to degradation of women to second class citizens.

The only way to stop it from happening is to demand the action from the governments,send back the offenders and do not take any more "refugees".Let's end this nonsensical political correctness and tiptoeing around the problem.

OhforGodsake · 23/01/2016 23:45

Don't hold back hedgehog Grin

evilcherub · 23/01/2016 23:50

I've just read the report about the refugees defecating, masturbating and trying to sexually assault women in a German swimming pool. Absolutely vile behaviour Shock.

www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/22/locals-fled-pool-after-migrants-masturbated-into-jacuzzi-defecated-into-kids-pool-molested-bathers/

OhforGodsake · 24/01/2016 00:07

So, once these men have been apprehended, why are they released without charge? Is it because German authorities don't want to be seen as being unwelcoming to them? Or is it because they don't value the safety of the women who have been molested/harassed? And how do you think this same situation would be handled here in the UK ? Do you think that UK law enforcement re sex crimes against women, as it currently stands, would be sufficiently powerful to protect women? Or do the recent revelations in Rochdale & Rotherham etc bode ill for women in the future?

MrsTerryPratchett · 24/01/2016 00:15

Women's safety is not prioritized and the vast majority of rapists and sex offenders never risk any punishment. Couple that with this deeply worrying event of mass sexual assault and you have open season. Essentially you are sending the message that it's totally fine to sexually assault women.

If we could trust the system to go after ALL rapists, there would be less of an issue; men who did this would be off the streets. There would be some deterrent. But we know that doesn't happen.

Atenco · 24/01/2016 00:18

I'm on the other side of the world, but can't help thinking these mass sex attacks on one night in particular must have been coordinated. It strikes me as very strange and unbelievable actually.

But yes women's rights have been being eroded all over the world for a good while now and it is getting worse. Benefit cuts affect mothers more than anyone, as do extremely long working hours. While women have once more become very objectified in the media

VertigoNun · 24/01/2016 00:26

I echo fears for women’s rights.

OfaFrenchmind2 · 24/01/2016 00:28

Atenco You consider them unbelievable? So you think that more than half thousand women are lying? That's f-ugly denial, my dear. Or maybe they needed 4 witnesses each asserting they had indeed been raped?

It's not unbelievable or strange. It happened in Cairo, on the same grand scale, it is also the kind of stuff that can happen in Saudi A. There is nothing really new about it, it just migrated to Europe.
Do not change the subject to benefits cuts or media objectification. We are talking about incredibly worrying and very dire attacks on the sexual and physical safety of women here in Europe.

lorelei9 · 24/01/2016 00:33

Kerala, interested to hear that the events have changed your world view
I have been worrying about this for ages and I thought that the type of person you describe yourself as being before, would never change IYSWIM. So I'm rather relieved that you said that.

I really wish these issues would get more coverage here.

Another poster mentions a disillusioned worker. I know someone who took a load of supplies to Calais. She returned with a very different view than the one that prompted her initial effort but to some extent there's still some denial going on with her as it means she has to change her whole world view.

OhforGodsake · 24/01/2016 00:39

Again in Gemany, 2 transgender women were walking home late one evening this week when they were stopped by North African men who objected to their appearance. The women were actually stoned by the men and were lucky that a police patrol happened to be nearby. If you have any doubts about the veracity of these reports Atenco you can easily find them yourself. But denying them won't make them less true. Or extremely worrying.

Atenco · 24/01/2016 00:44

You consider them unbelievable? So you think that more than half thousand women are lying

No, I don't disbelieve the events, just I query what was behind such coordinated attacks

hiddenhome2 · 24/01/2016 00:44

This was all pretty predictable really. I sat in my living room predicting it. I wonder how many more did. Plenty I would say.

These do gooders and politicians need a reality check Hmm

PausingFlatly · 24/01/2016 00:46

Women's safety is not prioritized and the vast majority of rapists and sex offenders never risk any punishment. Couple that with this deeply worrying event of mass sexual assault and you have open season. Essentially you are sending the message that it's totally fine to sexually assault women.

If we could trust the system to go after ALL rapists, there would be less of an issue; men who did this would be off the streets. There would be some deterrent. But we know that doesn't happen.

What MrsTerryPratchett said.^

lorelei9 · 24/01/2016 00:49

Hidden, that's interesting, I'm a pessimist and I've been worried about it but I never envisaged a mass attack. As soon as I heard I did think I should have thought of it, if you get my drift!

I knew it would all go wrong but I didn't think it would be this fast.

fidel1ne · 24/01/2016 00:51

YANBU OP. I think we are at a crossroads. Hopefully secular and feminist freedoms will be fought hard for.

hiddenhome2 · 24/01/2016 00:52

Well, I'm hugely cynical about human nature. The mass attack was shocking, but not surprising.

Sounds like the Germans are having a fun time at the moment Sad

GeekLove · 24/01/2016 01:00

The ease and frequency of sex attacks is because women's safety is not prioritised anywhere. It need to be there from day one in schools and nurseries.

Meanwhile, we also have to be wary of the far right who are in general strangers to women's rights use these incidents as a handy bandwagon.

I mean, look at copies of the Sun and other quasi-pornographic material available for consumption. It does not say a great deal about the status of women in this country?

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 24/01/2016 01:04

Where have you been living that you take your freedom for granted OP? I live in the UK and I certainly don't. Obviously what's happened in Cologne is terrible. That's a given. But bad shit happens to women all the time and in a systematic way too. My DF works in student services and sexual violence on campus is a massive issue. Pornification of society - another massive issue.

Let's not pretend that everything is lovely and Cologne is an aberration. Because it's not.

IPityThePontipines · 24/01/2016 01:10

Breitbart is a extreme right wing rag. I'd like to see something from a reliable source.

As someone who used to stay in Syria annually, I struggle with the depiction of Syrians on here, they all seemed perfectly human to me. Do you honestly think their lives are so different to yours?

Investigate the crimes and punish the perpetrators, but spreading racist nonsense against people who have fled hell on earth is sickening.

CalmYoBadSelf · 24/01/2016 01:31

We all think of terrorist attacks as being guns, bombs, etc but the threat of sexual violence is making women in Europe change their behaviour just as effectively.

I think you are right to be scared, I am too, as it seems that the authorities are intent on not reporting it and some people try to silence all discussion by accusations of racism. The danger is that we all carry on with our lives, thinking we are safe and, by the time we realise it, our way of life is gone. Read the "Cologne Sexual Assaults" threads (all 6 of them!) on here if you want to read more about what has happened.

The posters from those threads are trying to get a petition together to force the government to try to debate this issue and put something in place to protect women's rights. It is currently waiting for approval to be put on the You.gov website. Please read some of those Cologne threads, learn more about it, watch out for the petition (hopefully in the next week) and please, please sign it

AnnaForbes · 24/01/2016 01:32

Pontipines. It is now acknowledged that a majority aren't 'fleeing on earth ', conservative estimates are around 2 thirds are economic migrants.

I have travelled extensively in N A and can say from experience, most NA men think white women are trash. I was molested or groped on an almost daily basis. Transferring that mindset here puts all our daughters in jeopardy.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 24/01/2016 01:36

It's half one and I'm a bit pissed. I could wander down my exclusively white high street right now and provide examples of how many Eastern Scottish white men think white women are trash. I'm not going to, because it's raining. And I'm not denying the experiences you and the women in Germany have experienced. But there's plenty to worry about here, at home, too.