Friend using disablist word to self-describe. Is she BU? And WWYD? (offensive word in OP)

[GoringBit]

Not a TAAT, but prompted by a thread about offensive words, which I don't want to derail.

I've known this friend for a few years; she has various acute health problems, and is registered disabled. We get on well, meet for coffee a couple of times a months, and pursue a shared interest together.

I enjoy her company, but she repeatedly uses a really ugly, disablist word, referring to herself as a xxx. I'm not going to use the word here, as I think it could be identifying (I doubt she uses MN, but it's possible), but it's a variant of spastic. I can guarantee she'll use it at least once whenever I see her (she also uses it in front of my DP and a mutual friend), and if it's a full day together, maybe six times or more. I hate it, it's horrible, and the first time she used it, I commented that it wasn't a great word to use about herself, but she shrugged it off and carried on. I've mentioned it, very briefly, to our mutual friend, who thinks it's done to get a reaction, and that I should ignore it, as she does.

To avoid drip feeding, friend's disability is related to her illnesses, not CP. She is in very poor health; without going into details, she is unlikely to live until the end of this year.

I get that people can self-identify, and I understand why some people reclaim derogatory words, but I just feel that she is BU to use this word, because it's not hers, if that makes sense. That said, I don't feel comfortable about commenting on it again, particularly as her health is so poor, so I've been ignoring it, but am I BU in letting her use this word?

I'm probably overthinking it, but would be interested to know what others think and what, if anything, you would say or do.

Oh it's a man? In that case HE is in the wrong.

When are people who are disabled allowed just to live for themselves in their own way?

And when must they be forced into educating an entire society, or being held up as the example and living embodiment for a massive and diverse group of people that cuts across all demographics and geographies? Role model and example. Existing to make others feel more comfortable around disability and otherness.

I know everyone is much more comfortable when they've pushed the disabled person into being the educator and poster child for all around them. And they must never ever be rude, selfish, impatient, stressed, in a rush or just plain not a nice person.

But surely at some point they are let off the hook? Sometimes they must be allowed to be themselves. Let to live and die on their own terms and in their own way. You know, like other people.

(For the wider thread, I realize the OP has said she won't bring it up whatever her own personal feelings on the matter).

In general, the problem with whinyarsed virtue-signallers who want to police other people's language is that actually they have fuck all empathy for other people. They think that the group/class of people they are claiming to defend is one great homogenous mass rather than a load of separate people with different views on all sorts of things (and also that these poor ethnic/disabled/impoverished/sexually different people can't defend themselves, but need the Righteous to Speak Out.)

In general, people using a word in a deliberately hostile way are going to hurt/outrage/annoy others whether that word is a known perjorative or a term that was previously considered acceptable. People making an innocent mistake are making an innocent mistake (ie old people using what was the 'polite' term in their younger days without meaning any harm) and don't need a public telling-off.

And people using a word to describe themselves have every right to use whatever word they prefer - it's not their job to be the perfect representative of their ethnic group/social class/physical condition.

MisscellanousAssortment I bloody love you fantastic post and point I was nodding along to every word

In general, the problem with whinyarsed virtue-signallers who want to police other people's language is that actually they have fuck all empathy for other people. They think that the group/class of people they are claiming to defend is one great homogenous mass rather than a load of separate people with different views on all sorts of things (and also that these poor ethnic/disabled/impoverished/sexually different people can't defend themselves, but need the Righteous to Speak Out.)

As I said, dd calls herself a spaz and her wheelchair a spaz chariot. Anyone else calls her one and I'll (verbally) rip their throat out. I'm not a whinyarsed anything. Sometimes it really is about doing the right thing.

Well fuck you
My dd has no voice, so i and her dad and db willbe her voice
So we willmake a stnd gainst disablist hate speech so she doesnt have toput up with it.
The ops mate has a voice, yet uses. Hateful. Word, wowser

Dawn, how can other people know that you will (verbally) rip their throat out if they call your DD a spaz, if they hear her calling herself it. It sends mixed messages.

I don't think disabled people have a duty to be educators - they can be themselves as much as they want, but they can't complain about other people using terms like spastic and cripple, if they use them themselves.

Part of the reason why disabled people have been so undervalued by society, is because of the language used to describe them, that is why disability rights grouped campaigned for the change in language.

Just checking, everyone feels the same about n*er right?

That black people should use that word and get all cross when white people cant seem to tell he difference and use it to label black people again?

And that black people who use this term are somehow a little bit to blame for undermining equality?

Humm. Genuinely interested.

I completely agree Misc
There's another thread at the moment asking why gollywog is offensive, it's unanimous that it is an incredibly offensive term that has no place to be used.

Samcro With all due respect, it's quite different when it's your body, your pain, your disability, your life. I have the right to express my anger at what life has given me. You are the voice for your child but nothing more. I have a child with SN btw, so I do get it.

I'm very confused about the gender of this friend now

I refer to myself frequently as a cripple. I don't know what would piss me off the most: somebody else calling me a cripple, or a well-meaning friend trying to educate me on the subject. Happily OP has long since elected to leave off the lecture.

I think YABU to think in terms of 'letting' your friend use a word about herself.

People say all sorts of things we wouldn't say, or disapprove of, the decision to take them up on it or not is a judgement call, IMO. And my judgement call on this would be that she's got bigger things to worry about than whether I approve of her vocabulary. Which seems to be the conclusion you've reached anyway

Out of interest how old is your friend?

My mum is early sixties and was slightly deprived of oxygen at birth. She can't catch a ball for example. The doctors referred to her, in front of her, as "a bit spastic". Her parents described it that way. Her teachers described it that way. All through her growing up. So not surprisingly that is how she refers to herself.

The last time she did it (it's not something she mentions often - only if it comes up) I gently said it is not really language she should use. She now would say "birth injury". But she was using it until recently.

I have disabilities, and have many friends who do too. We will use words to poke fun at ourselves and to each other, but of anyone else dared do it to any of us they wouldn't know what's hit them!!!

It's a bit like Fat Amy really, getting in there first.

But also, there's a lot of self deprecating humour, and it's often a necessary chopping mechanism in the disabled, and if people who don't have disabilities are offended by the way we cope with our disabilities them quite frankly that's tough and they can get stuffed.

I completely agree about the self-deprecating humour. When I am with my disabled friends we laugh and poke fun at the difficulties we face, but I still think there is no place for certain derogatory terms.

Do you think perhaps you are focusing on this rather than the more painful issue of your friend dying?

Op I have two friends one who refers to themselves as half caste the other as a paki. They are not words I would use to describe others but they are not being racist. It's the same thing with your friend.

Your friend is dying. I'd forget about their use of language tbh.

Thanks all for the comments, I've read and taken them all in.

I've only just realised that the first post talked about 'letting' her use the word, which was badly put; I'm really not trying to be the speech police. As I mentioned, it was only the first time that she said it that I expressed surprise, since then, I've not reacted to it, and I certainly wouldn't use it, ever. I think part of it is that I find it sad that she uses that word to describe herself, but as others have said, there's probably an element of 'getting in there first'.

For those asking, I'm male, she's female, and we're both around 50. She is quite self-deprecating, as someone suggested, also fiercely independent and reluctant to accept help; she has a view that if she can do something, she should it, rather than just give up doing things, which I get, but if I'm going to the shops anyway, why wouldn't I take her, or get stuff for her while I'm out?

Anyway, I do appreciate the responses; I'm now going to unclench and enjoy her company.

Good god.

If a good friend of mine was dying I'd have enough to worry about coping with that, without fretting about things that were none of my business. She could call herself whatever she liked. Hell, she could call ME what she liked 🙄

Is it so hard to read the OP's post above yours before you wade in?

I really do feel sorry for the OP here who's continued to be courteous and appreciative of people's input.

Goring, I am sure you will be useful, helpful, supportive, etc.

I can't get my head round some posts though.

a) you have long ago acknowledged that you have accepted the boot up your bum and have given yourself a stern talking to. You have straightened up and now fly right! P

b) what he hell are forums such as this for if not to ask a question you couldn't, in all good conscience, ask in real life? I know we all like to vent, have keyboard warrior tendencies on some subjects (I know I do, and I fully accept the current bashing I am getting elsewhere). But to pointedly attack a poster without reference to the developments of a thread just seems utterly pointless, mean, self serving.

Pah!

my most recent post was in reply to SolidGoldBrass normal goady post

Thanks Sooty and Blanche.

Agreed, Blanche, this can be a good place to ask questions that you wouldn't in the real world. The golliwog thread is a good example, but my, that OP was a brave soul, and actually, I've learnt stuff from that thread also.

I asked here because I didn't want to in real life, either to DP or our mutual friend. I wanted anonymous, impartial opinions, and I was prepared for the rough and tumble of AIBU. And I also think there's an interesting discussion to be had on language and ownership of certain words, if there is such a thing.

I didn't expect there to be a unanimous response, and there was been some shoeing, but even the harshest of comments are heartfelt, for want of a better word, so I'm going to respect them, even if they're put in a way that I wouldn't myself. The YABU comments are helpful, as they've challenged and made me reconsider what what I was thinking, rather than reinforcing it.

Your friend is dying and using a term to describe herself that you hate to hear used about her.
If someone else were to use that term, you could defend her and release some of that anger at the unfairness of your friend's situation.
But she's the one using the term, so you can't.

Be kind to yourself, Op. Your friend has only a year to live and that must be very hard for you, too.