To be so upset at my DS 4's school

[MrsBB1982]

So please bear with me. I think some background is useful.

DS is 4 and started reception in September. He's not a natural 'concentrator'. Academically he's above average but just struggles to sit down for any length of time. His school already expect him to sit down for classes the whole day...double maths then double english then double geography for example.

We've been told his behaviour an issue. He got sent to the headmaster on Thursday and Friday. His form teacher wasn't with him so it was just him and the head.

Since then he keeps saying 'I might have to leave the school and me er see my friends again'. He's now becoming g withdrawn and doesn't want to go to school

He's a loving, kind and sweet natured lad. He's born at the end of August so very young in his class. DH and I know he's not perfect. Like I said concentration has always been an issue although he can finish tasks. He's a fidgety energetic lad. He can be hot headed and we describe him as a 'reactor' in that he tends to react to a situation before thinking through.

If you're still with me! My question is AIBU in thinking going to the headmaster two days in a row for poor concentration/fidgeting/talking (confirmed as the reason by his teacher ) on his own an being threatened with having to leave the school is heavy handed. He's not been lashing out or anything physical.

We haven't been consulted about this. We only know because DS mentioned it. Or does he really have a problem?

[Italiangreyhound]

Sorry to swear but... If you're still with me! My question is AIBU in thinking going to the headmaster two days in a row for poor concentration/fidgeting/talking (confirmed as the reason by his teacher ) on his own an being threatened with having to leave the school is heavy handed. He's not been lashing out or anything physical.

FUCK, NO, you are not being unreasonable. This school sounds a nightmare is he 4 or 14. Honestly, this is mad! What is he learning in double geography!!!!!!

Kids need to develop their brains by free play, climbing tress, running around, dressing up.... double geography??? I'm stunned.

In your shoes I'd say if they want your money they will tailor the class a bit more! And have they really threatened him with having to leave, that is just plain cruel. Sounds like an awful place. Sorry, not much help.

[Italiangreyhound]

Sorry to swear

[tangerinesarenottheonlyfruit]

Your DS's reception class would likely be criticised by Ofsted for being too formal. At reception at DS's school they learn through play, as per the Early Years Foundation Stage guidelines

Each classroom has an indoor and outdoor space and a lot of the time they are free to choose to learn outside or inside. Activities are set up with a lot of thought about what will suit the DC in that class. All seem like fun and play but are very specifically chosen for specific learning outcomes.

They use the golden time method for behaviour management, and have several schemes in place to encourage good behaviour. One of the rewards for good behaviour is to visit the head teacher for "tea" (a drink or milk / squash and biscuit) with a friend you can choose, there's no being sent to the dead for bad behaviour.

Your DS's school is totally out of step with modern thinking on early years.
It's bonkers, and possibly quite damaging IMO.

I'd remove my child ASAP if it was me.

6 months is not long in the adult world but it would feel like forever to your DS at age 4 - certainly long enough to do some damage.

I'd change schools ASAP, and then again when you relocate. It'll be fine, he's only young. He can still make friends and settle at the school you relocate to.

Many of us send DC to nursery then change, and don't think too badly of that. Also people in the private system change again at prep age don't they? My DS goes to an infant school, he'll change at 7. A bit of change is fine, well managed. Staying in a hostile, damaging environment is not.

[tangerinesarenottheonlyfruit]

DS's school I described above is a state primary BTW.

[MrsBB1982]

Actually italiangreyhoud it is helpful! We're trying to put it all j perspective - are we being blind and missing a problem child or is the school at fault? We have been made to feel we are the issue but these comments have reassured us slightly

[edwinbear]

Another one with dd (4) and ds (6) at private school and even ds in Y2 doesn't have a timetable like that. The 4 year old spends her day making paper spaceships, investigating how magnets work, listening to stories, and possibly scribbling on a bit of paper and posting it home to investigate how long Royal Mail take. She was set a 'maths challenge' this weekend which involved sorting the spoons, knives and forks into sets. She lost her concentration after the spoons. It's the school with the problem, not your ds.

[DesertIslandPenguin]

Take him out of there. That's not the right environment for any 4yo.

The reception classes at DS's school spend the majority of the day outside (rain or shine), learning through play. They climb, draw shapes in sand, collect leaves, act out stories, and have a grand old time. At the end of the day they're absolutely filthy but very happy. That's what reception should be like.

[Dixiechickonhols]

I'd look for another school asap. It's not typical. DD's private school has a lovely reception with a big outdoor area with lots of creative activities. I have to go through their bit to collect DD from afterclub and I like to see what they have set up each week and all the little wellies lined up.

I've never heard of little ones having different teachers except maybe for dance etc.

[DottyBlue2]

Hi - my DS had a similar timetable, ie numeracy before break, literacy after break, humanities (ie geography) after lunch.

Arrange a meeting with the Head AND the class teacher, so that each can hear what the other one is saying. You need to hear it from them first hand so that you can find out exactly what's going on. You'll get a gut reaction as to whether this is the right school for you.

You're paying for this, you know. Other private schools are available.

[HPandBaconSandwiches]

Link to 4year old behaviour It's an Aussie one but I think pretty accurately describes an average 4 year old. It may reassure you.

[Italiangreyhound]

MrsBB1982, just saw you had been crying, sorry about that but it is a normal reaction. Whenever kids are having a hard time at school, parents often get upset, or at least all my friends do.

Re It's so reassuring to hear that DS isn't some massively badly behaved child. We were questioning our parenting and whether we needed to take him to GP/psychologist. Please be reassured, if he is normal. Getting fidgety sitting on your bum all day is normal for all young kids, IMHO, not just 4 years olds, not just boys, it's just normal.

Just for the record my ds is 5, he started school at 4, he turned 4 a short time before the start of the new year, and he is adopted. So we kept him back from the start of school in September, sent him part-time from Jan and full-time from Easter. He is now year 1 and catching up well despite some people's fears that he would find it very hard to catch up!

I really feel strongly children need to develop so many skills outside formal lessons. It's good to see lots of other people saying all this stuff too. In Sweden kids start formal education later but they all catch up and actually end up bilingual or even trilingual as well. In the UK we seem to pressurize kids much, too early and I don't think it does them any favours. I looked into it all when we were getting pressure to send our newly adopted newly four year old to full time school.

[FrancisdeSales]

This sounds like a completely inappropriate environment for a 4 yrs old, I would have him out of there asap and find somewhere that is all about hands on play.

[Shelby2010]

There is very little difference in the set up between my DD's reception class and the pre-school she was at. Lots of table/areas set up with different activities & most of time there's free flow to the outside area. The more formal learning is mainly done in small groups and still made to be fun.

I think you should contact your local primaries as the only problem I can see with moving him is that the good schools are likely to be oversubscribed and the classes full.

[eternalopt]

Read this. It has some info if you scroll down about expected concentration spans - 10-15 mins for a 5 year old! day2dayparenting.com/qa-normal-attention-span/

Private schools have stats to protect, or their prospectus starts to look like they have normal children attending with different abilities bad, so sometimes they are less able to be tolerant of children who don't fit into the mould they are trying to shove them into. Don't let your boy by broken by them. Meet with the head again and discuss how they intend to help bring him on rather than pushing him down and punishing him. If you don't like the answers and feel they are more driven by their interests and not yours and your boy's, move him.

[Permanentlyexhausted]

I would remove him from the school sraight away. As he's only 4 and an August birthday, he doesn't need to be in school until September anyway. He can start in year 1 as far as I know.

[Nanny0gg]

If the school can't be kind to small children, it's the wrong school.

One of my DGC is the youngest in Reception. He adores his teacher who seems very fond of him.

They make everything fun. Their enthusiasm is infections and although he struggled more than some of his peers when he started he's catching up well and absolutely loves it.

And the worst punishment they have (other than disappointment, which the children hate) is a few minutes on the Thinking Chair.

They'd have to be mini psychopaths before they got sent to the HT!

This school is horrible. Move him and tell them why. (in fact, bear in mind, he doesn't have to be in school at all, yet)

[slkk]

Italian! I've never seen you swear before!
OP, I expect you realise now that this school is not right for your son. However, with your possible relocation it is tricky as obviously you don't want to move him twice. How soon do you think you will know and are you likely to move before July? If not, I'd probably move him for the rest of the year before any more damage is done to his self esteem.

[sarahbanshee]

7yo DS is a September baby, so right at the oldest end of the year - and no way would he have been able to handle this sort of approach in reception. He thrived and learnt to read and write, all in a free play environment with no more than about 15 minutes 'formal learning' once or twice a day. 4yo DD is in nursery class now so has 3hrs school a day, again almost all free play, and yet she too is learning to read and write. But most important of all they both love school and think very positively about their experience, and that feels like the best foundation of all for future learning.

Your poor boy and poor you, this school sounds dreadful and entirely unsuited to be responsible for the care and learning of such young children. How dare they make him feel so sad and hopeless, and how dare they make you feel so worried and unsupported!

It's very easy for strangers on the internet to say "take him out" as though that isn't a very major and momentous decision for you. But nonetheless I will say it because it just sounds so wrong and so damaging for his confidence. He's got years ahead of him for double geography and double maths, and when the time is right I hope he loves both and shines. Right now he is little and he needs to explore the world for himself and have moments of joy every day. Please find an environment that supports that and gives you faith back in your boy and your parenting.

[BertrandRussell]

Don't send him back- ever.

Burn his tie and blazer.

[AlpacaLypse]

I'm truly shocked. I didn't think even the most hidebound private schools were allowed to do this stuff anymore.

OP almost any state primary will supply a better education to your four year old son than this dinosaur private school.

Move him. Now.

Speaking as a sibling who saw her baby brother being put through this stuff because our parents seemed to think smaller class sizes would help - it didn't.

He never really got back on track. Addiction etc happened, he died from alcohol and drug misuse complications when he was 38.

Sorry if this sounds faintly hysterical but looking back, all the problems really started when he first went to school!

[Ditsy4]

This sounds strange the double subjects . How long is a lesson supposed to be?
I would look for a Steiner/ Waldorf or a Montessori school. Fee paying, small classes, child centred.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Wtf.

your ds sounds perfectly normal.

what isn't normal.is sodding double geography and sitting down to lessons aged 4

dd cones home. muddy or with paint on her jumpers. she plays and reception even have their own outdoor area.

double geography? you're having a laugh. unless they are 5 minute classes that is.

take him.out and don't ever look back.

[katyk81]

My daughter is also August born and started Reception in September, she has a fairly good concentration span but there is no way she could cope with that kind of timetable. She would end up playing up purely from exhaustion- if she wasn't difficult at school she certainly would be at home.

That sounds extremely grueling timetable for a class of four year olds and I would be amazed if the others in his class are capable of keeping up with it. Our school does have 29 in the class and despite coming from a small private nursery setting I feel my daughter is thriving- her reading is coming on in leaps and bounds, as is her maths and writing, she is also taking much more of an interest in the world around her and yet most of this has been achieved through play with short bursts of whole class, small group and 1 on 1 learning sessions.

I would certainly be considering other options in your situation and having a very open discussion with the school regarding the next 6 months as 4 is very young for a child to be feeling resentful about going to school or worrying about being punished.

[Jux]

Take him out of school for now. Does he really have to be there? Finding large groups of people daunting is pretty normal, so is it worth possibly putting him off education for life just to avoid that? It sounds like he'd be way better off at a state primary. OK,mlarge classes, but loads of fun and moving about. I'm not sure dd was in class like double geography until she was at least 8!

You know, I went to a private prep from age 4 in the 60s. We didn't even have time tables until Y2.

[KarenLong]

The school clearly don't want him.. They are quite within their rights to tell him he can't stay if he doesn't change his behaviour. Obviously the other children in the class are concentrating, and I don't expect other parents are going to be happy to be paying to have lessons disrupted by your son.

There are other private schools that might be less academic.

What exactly was his problem with larger class sizes?