To be so upset at my DS 4's school

[MrsBB1982]

So please bear with me. I think some background is useful.

DS is 4 and started reception in September. He's not a natural 'concentrator'. Academically he's above average but just struggles to sit down for any length of time. His school already expect him to sit down for classes the whole day...double maths then double english then double geography for example.

We've been told his behaviour an issue. He got sent to the headmaster on Thursday and Friday. His form teacher wasn't with him so it was just him and the head.

Since then he keeps saying 'I might have to leave the school and me er see my friends again'. He's now becoming g withdrawn and doesn't want to go to school

He's a loving, kind and sweet natured lad. He's born at the end of August so very young in his class. DH and I know he's not perfect. Like I said concentration has always been an issue although he can finish tasks. He's a fidgety energetic lad. He can be hot headed and we describe him as a 'reactor' in that he tends to react to a situation before thinking through.

If you're still with me! My question is AIBU in thinking going to the headmaster two days in a row for poor concentration/fidgeting/talking (confirmed as the reason by his teacher ) on his own an being threatened with having to leave the school is heavy handed. He's not been lashing out or anything physical.

We haven't been consulted about this. We only know because DS mentioned it. Or does he really have a problem?

[goldensquirrel]

They did not 'them'.

[AnotherCider]

Op, thas awful! My DSs are at a private school. I deliberately chose one that does NOT do his sort of nonsense. DS2is also an august baby.

[ReallyTired]

The LEA will have to find somewhere for the op son to go. It might be a state primary on a rough council estate, but it has to be better than the present hell hole.

[ItchyArmpits]

He's not a natural 'concentrator'. he tends to react to a situation before thinking through.

He is 4. What you describe are traits entirely typical of a 4 year old, and frankly, not exactly surprising in a 16 year old.

You need to communicate directly with your son's class teacher first - "my DS said he has been sent to the head, but his explanation as to why didn't make much sense, please can you fill in the details?"

[tangerinesarenottheonlyfruit]

The size of the school is irrelevant. What matters is the quality of the education, how well they understand and meet the needs of the DC in their care and how nurturing the environment is.

DS's infant school is HUGE! Each year has at least four classes in it. Yet they manage to create a wonderfully nurturing environment, especially in reception.

Before they started school, every child got a home visit from their new teacher and a classroom assistant. One reason was to ensure the children felt at ease with their class teacher when they started. Another was to fund out what each individual child's interests were, so they could plan lessons and activities that they would find engaging.

Mouseinahole's DC's school sounds wonderful, but small schools don't don't have the monopoly on being wonderful. I would imagine there are some pretty dire ones out there too.

[ItchyArmpits]

It sounds, on the basis of the information given, like the school is simply not very good at educating children.

If your son is fidgeting, talking, not paying attention - could that be because he's bored shitless?

[Baressentials]

I have 4dc. The eldest was an "ideal" child - in that he never had an issue at school, was academically way ahead. He would have coped very badly in reception in your environment, he needed the play environment the school provided, to have chance to burn off energy , as much as dc3 who had delayed development and started reception barely talking, couldn't write let alone recognise his own name. He (dc3) is now in Y1 and recently left his old school (due to us moving house) top of his whole year in literacy and 5th in numeracy. Not that I give a shit where he is compared to his peers but that was just to illustrate what his amazing state school did (I was also worried about class sizes when he started school as I knew what problems/issues he had) but private school was never an option for me, if it had been I might well have done the same by assuming small class sizes = better.

I would move him. Honestly. He has a long school life ahead of him. My eldest teacher said to me one of the most important parts of the first few years at school was to get the children to enjoy school and to enjoy learning. Come in too hard too fast and they will see school as the enemy, as something to dread.

Hope all the makes sense - dc4 is climbing on me!

[Baressentials]

*eldest teacher = DC1s first teacher

[starry0ne]

This is a very sad post.. Both because you think there might be something wrong with your little boy which I think a child that will sit that long and concentrate I would think the other children would be cause for concern for me.
The second is what this is doing to your DS self esteem and self belief he is a naughty boy been sent to head.

Another get him out... the other thing is ring round local school to see if they have spaces...You can move children very quickly. you can go and have a look round. I think you will be suprised the fun the children are having..

My Ds did better in small groups however private wasn't an option for me... He was quite quiet in reception but he adapted and did really enjoy it..

[Baressentials]

Oh and dc3 (the one with delayed development) his year in reception was mainly playing too. The children don't realise they are learning maths/English/geography etc because it is all through play. He used to come home and I would ask what did you do today? His answer was always "played" then gradually it came out they did this amazing thing like feed the chickens ;) or had firemen visit or were allowed to choose what they did so he chose to go on Mathletics for half an hour with his friends. If he had been told he had to sit and do numeracy for half an hour it would have had a different result. He now views being allowed to go on Mathletics at home as something amazing - he still hasn't connected that it is like homework or learning

[Gileswithachainsaw]

It's still worth phoning all schools you can potentially get to. you might get lucky. and.if you do, depending on the start date I'd take a.few days off work and keep him.home.til he starts to try and undo the damage and stress.

I watched my dd run in this morning and go pick. up a toy to play with. I looked at the pictures of smiling kids on the wall playing and I thought about this thread and how instead of talking to her friends and seeing her artwork on the wall she could be sitting down to double English. it made me feel so sorry for your ds.

I shall keep my fingers crossed for you that you find something. this schopl sounds awful akd I don't see how any of the kids are coping

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

I'd move him. Reception is for making friends and learning now to behave in a classroom, with a tiny bit of formal learning through play.

It sounds like a shitty school, your son will be much more upset staying there than leaving.

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

And he'll get used to larger classes like every other child does.

[Love2dance]

Hello OP. So sorry to hear about your DS. I set out my experience as it is what I know (not necessarily what would suit everyone). FWIW I went to state school and my DS x 2 go to a small (and somewhat old fashioned) London prep. DS1 (year 4) is doing extremely well. DS2 was born very premature (July instead of Sept) so we spoke to the school and decided to put him a year "behind", ie where he would have been if he'd been born on his due date.

The previous head was very old school. Children sent to him for being "naughty" from about year 1. Traditional ideas about discipline. I caught a teacher shouting aggressively at a small group of children including my DSS who were then 4 and 8) just for playing on some grass at the end of school. DS1 was near to tears. DS2 was terrified. I was so shocked I was rooted to the spot. I spoke to her the next day and politely asked why she had not spoken to me as parents were everywhere and told her that her actions were disproportionate and unwarranted. When I said how upset my kids were she responded by suggesting that the were sensitive. An example of turning the issue round to blame the children , not herself. I did not turn it into a big deal but I needed her to know I was someone who would speka up if necessary.

When it came to DS2 (who does not concentrate very well due to processing difficulties but who does not have profound SEN) I found I had to be very visible and to be his advocate. The head of the attached nursery was fantastic and he had an IEP. Now he is in reception I have found that I need to let them know (nicely) that his dad and I are keeping an eye on whether they are doing things the right way for him. For reasons others have spoken about some private schools do shy away from children with "issues" or who don't fit the mold. Some schools do need reminding (the private ones) that they are taking our money and we are consumers. They need to be doing a good job, not just expecting children to fit in. Some of the teachers or even the head may just not have the experience of dealing with fiddly children and may mistake it for poor behaviour or SEN when in fact they are just dealing with a typical 4 year old. If your DS turns out to have any special needs (not profound ones, but the sort that require some additional support) that should be something they should be willing to help with.

If you are concerned about moving your DS at this stage I would suggest setting up a meeting with the head and politely but firmly pointing out that their methods are not age appropriate and that their expectations of your DS are wildly unrealistic; that you are extremely concerned that they are stigmatising him and that it won't do! Go armed with information to back you up (some of the helpful links above for example). The reaction you get will help to guide you as to what should come next. If the response is "our way or the high way", you'll know what to do and you can look elsewhere. Make it plain that in blaming your DS they are shirking their responsibilities. Are they a member of the Independent Schools Council? If so they should have access to up to date info on teaching etc.

Lastly, if you are going to stay in the private system, given that he is summer born, you might want to consider holding him back a year as I have with mine. The reality is that prep schools do what they say on the tin. They are there to prepare children for competitive entrance exams and as children go through such schools, they will be pushed and will be expected to conform to particular ways of learning which do require sitting down for periods of time, rote learning, times tables, reasoning and all the rest. As a result, although my sons' school is still very much play based in reception, very soon after that things change and they want children to be ahead of national levels as soon as possible. I know that my DS2 simply would not have coped if I had put him in his "correct" year. Again, FWIW, his occupational therapist told me that she is aware of many children with processing/concentration/developmental delay issues (not saying that yours has these) who have been sent to school in the correct year when they were not quite ready. The result was social, behavioural and emotional problems. Just something to bear in mind.

Sorry for the long post and good luck!

[TheGreenNinja]

I'm staggered by that school, he's 4! Bless his heart, no child should be sitting still at that age. My DD is in reception at a private school and she spent yesterday climbinb through a spider-web maze, playing in a cardboard igloo and making superhero masks. She came home saying it was the best day ever. That's what the school should be providing! Learning through play.

[Baressentials]

OP don't discount being able to move him to another primary school without talking to Admissions. An awful lot of in year transfers happen in primary with not much notice.

[nowirehangers]

So the teacher has admitted it's not the right school for him, great. It sounds appalling, I can't think why any parent would want their child in such an environment. I know you were wary of a big, state school class but I felt the same way about my shy pfb - it was the making of her. Any decent state school will have tas and divide children into small groups for all activities, there was a wide friendship pool and children's diverse characters were celebrated and encouraged rather than crushed. I appreciate you may not be able to get a place at this point in the year, but it's worth having a look - if you're in London people move all the time.

[Love2dance]

PS: agree with what others say about good state schools. Unfortunately we did not get into any of the state primaries we wanted, so it was not simply a matter of preferring private to state!

I would be a hypocrite not to admit that the smaller class size in the current school was a draw (DS2 is one of 8 in his class), but IMO state primaries are far more likely to have teachers and TA's who have a wider breadth of experience in dealing with children of different abilities and characteristics; whether it is concentration, general ability, dyslexia, whatever.

[anotherdayanothersquabble]

Move him. You will find somewhere, even if it's at home. No need for him to go through this. If you think you might move in 6 months, don't worry about finding somewhere for the rest of the year. Reception is for learning through play, not for sitting still.

[IndridCold]

None of the private schools I have come across would even dream of expecting a four year old child to sit and do lessons for that length of time. TBH I can't imagine that the school would suit any child I know either. It sounds totally bizarre! My DS would have imploded under that sort of a regime.

[NoSquirrels]

If you can, try not to worry too much about the class size issue.

In my experience, a class of 30 is usually split up into much smaller learning groups when they are having "formal" learning in Reception - and all state schools have to subscribe to the EYFS, which says learning at this age MUST take place through play, and can be based both indoor and outdoor. So, for instance, it is quite usual for teachers and TAs at this age to have a few small groups on the go - if they're learning maths then there might be a counting activity set up both outside and inside, the kids free play and the adults sort of catch them to do it in groups of 3 or 4 for 10 minutes at a time. Much more like you would "teach" at home. So the "class of 30" thing is actually not so significant. Focus on the people, really look around at how they interact.

Now is actually quite a good time to go visit Reception classes that might have places - you'll get a real feel for how things are in the particular school and peer group, as they should be relatively settled now and not too overtired like before Christmas, say!

Definitely don't pay that private school any more of your hard-earned cash.
If your son is already worried about not seeing his friends, you might try to keep a playdate or two going with a couple of his friendliest buddies?

OP. Very stressful but he will thrive in the right place, you'll see.

[FeliciaJollygoodfellow]

God Love2Dance that sounds exhausting.

[Love2dance]

Tell me about it FeliciaJollygoodfellow!
I'm not a helicopter mum (maybe slightly anxious about DS2 as we narrowly avoided a still birth), but have just found after various mishaps/issues (with schools, Drs, hospitals) that sometimes you have to be assertive and ask QQ.
Now I really must stop chatting on MN do some work.

[ShesGotLionsInHerHeart]

OP don't feel bad about taking him in today.

You recognise there's a problem - with the school, not your lovely wee boy. And you're working on it!

That's really all can be expected of you. It's easy to say 'I'd never send him back for one more day' but in real life, when you have a job, it's not always that easy.

Sounds like you're on the right track. Take it easy.

[LittleBearPad]

What a crappy position to find yourself in OP.

I'm staggered that the remainder of his class are able to sit through their lessons. He sounds perfectly normal. If you are likely moving in six months then pull him out and send him to a local pre-school or state if you can get a place. Moving him twice is better than keeping him somewhere he's miserable.

For various reasons my DD went to three nurseries in six months. Absolutely not what I would have chosen but she was fine because she was well-cared for. Children are very adaptable if they need to be and are nurtured.