formula

[Emma2506]

Ok so I don't want to turn this into a whole ff vs bf war but I find it highly offensive to ff mums who can't collect advantage points/clubcard points, shops aren't allowed to have any offers on etc for formula. I understand it's the LAW but why is it acceptable to have deals on alcohol yet ff mums are penalised for choosing to ff or not being able physically able to bf? I know the excuse is shops promote breast feeding but I'm struggling to get my head around why a bf mum would buy formula just because it's on offer if she is doing well bf and it's FREE!

"Is it so hard to accept some people have the info and just don't want to"

No. Not at all.

I know how important it is to listen to a child read. I'm a qualified English teacher.

I just didn't want to listen to my own children stumbling through their books because I found it boring and I didn't fancy it, so I didn't do it.

Luckily they have had good teaching at school and are clever, so learned to read well anyway.

And you know, I don't resent all that pressure and guilt tripping from teachers and the government telling me how important it is for parents to listen to their child read just because I didn't feel like doing it and don't think it made a difference to my dc's.

Jassy I do see that point but I think they should be more concerned with ensuring women feel comfortable with their choices, to me that's more important.

pyjama it's interesting you found formula a pain. My DS has allergies but I still find it easier than bf. I occasionally regret not bfing but when I think how miserable it made me I know I made the choice that was right

mini likening choosing not to breastfeed to neglect is fucking offensive.

I use a sling. I know loads of women who don't because they don't want to, find it uncomfortable, prefer a pram. Using a sling has benefits. Do I judge people who choose not to? No because it's entirely their choice.

I highly doubt anyone picks what is statistically the "best" all of the time

mini likening choosing not to breastfeed to neglect is fucking offensive

?? Where did this happen?

I think if I'd have had better support I'd have succeeded at breastfeeding. We had an undiagnosed tongue tie and by the time it was cut it seemed to be too late. My son actually lost some weight and the paediatrician told me to give formula. We managed to keep breastfeeding alongside but I feel awful about it really awful.

I had PND and it was just all a blur. I don't know. I can't talk about it without crying still ang DS is 15 months now. He's not walking or talking yet and I feel like that might be my fault - because he was undernourished when he was tiny.

What I should have done in the early days is just done nothing but breastfed. Not messed about with pumping and supplementing, we should just have been in bed together making it work. I know I let him down.

OhShutUpThomas see the post about reading

I hate making bottles, I hate taking them out, I find bottles really restrictive because they require sterilising kit and powder and safe water. I have to be back at X time because of fecking bottles. I hated getting up in the night and having to get out of bed to get a bottle.

I didn't even want everyone having a go at feeding my baby his bottle and ds hated anyone but me and dh anyway.

Ds had weeks of discomfort because of formula until he settled on the right one so essentially I unwittingly passed my pain and discomfort onto him.

Basically all the worries and problems I had with bf probably would have passed.

splendide only one of my four was walking and talking at 15 months. One could walk but not talk, the other two did neither at 15 months.

I had loads of support breastfeeding my youngest. He refused to feed. I was determined to breastfeed, the midwives were determined to help. He was sent to SCBU if I'd have let him have formula he would have been able to stay with me. It was such a stressful time, I look back now and think I should have just given him the formula.

Pyjama fair enough. With going out though you can just take a clean bottle and powder and ask for a cup of boiling water!

Different things for different people, I find having others who can feed my baby really handy

Jassy I do see that point but I think they should be more concerned with ensuring women feel comfortable with their choices, to me that's more important.

Why, when it's clear that one option would save the NHS money and lead to a healthier population? It would be a fairly irresponsible government that wasn't concerned with improving public health, cutting cancer rates, and saving money.

As I've said, I completely support the choice of women to formula feed rather than breastfeed. But I draw the line at demanding that the government stop promoting breastfeeding when all the evidence points to better public health outcomes, in favour of a laissez-faire approach that says we'd rather not promote behaviour that will lead to positive results and save money, because some people might interpret it as critical of them.

Jassy because I don't think it's fair to pressurise people into it. Give the facts, normalise bf, support bf, but also give the information about bottle feeding so that women can make an informed choice.

"We recommend breastfeeding because x y a but understand that some prefer to bottle feed. If you would like to bottle feed we have this information"

Seems like a much better approach

Thomas - I hope so but there are many women who need specialist help - peer support would never have cut it for me - and that simply isn't widely available at the moment. I was incredibly lucky to be able to afford to access the right help; the NHS just wasn't set up to provide it.

I do hope that in a generation breastfeeding is more normalised and accepted - particularly by the mothers of new mums, who can have such an impact.

Jassy because I don't think it's fair to pressurise people into it.

What pressure exists, apart from the provision of information and the occasional overbearing midwife, who you never have to see again after giving birth? After I gave birth I found as many midwives were pushing formula as supporting breastfeeding. No one is linking breastfeeding to benefits, or access to childcare or tax credits, or anything truly coercive. Information is provided, often in a forthright way that makes it clear

Give the facts, normalise bf, support bf, but also give the information about bottle feeding so that women can make an informed choice.

How is breastfeeding going to be normalised if the government doesn't take a hand in promoting it?

"We recommend breastfeeding because x y a but understand that some prefer to bottle feed. If you would like to bottle feed we have this information"

This is what happens now. Information on formula is widely available but information on breastfeeding is prioritised, for obvious reasons.

Out of interest, do you feel this way about all public health campaigns, or just breastfeeding?

Totally agree Jassy if I had a dd I'd do whatever it took to support her in bf if she wanted to.

Cooking and cleaning for her while she slept, looking after older dc's and doing school runs, driving her to any bf workshops.

Jassy overbearing midwives and lack of information about bottle feeding. I wasnt given any information even though I said I wanted to try bf but was happy to ff.

I don't mind the government having a hand in it, making it illegal to ask a bf mother to move, bf support on the NHS etc. I just don't think that should be at the expense of those who don't want to/can't bf

What do you mean? I would find it irritating if after someone had been given the info on smoking and said "thanks but I don't want to quit" someone kept badgering them about it. That's how I feel.

Pyjama yes they probably would have passed, but with no one to tell you this and with no experience of watching others breastfeed, how could you know? There's a generational gap in breastfeeding experience, largely due to formula advertising in the 50s and 60s. It used to be that the older women in the family would support the youngest, but this isn't the norm now as often the older women didn't breastfeed, being told that formula was best when they were having children.
This isn't your fault pyjama, it's a society wide problem. Please don't be too hard on yourself

Funnily enough, forums like this and social media are helping to bridge this gap a little. There's so much more information out there now than even 5 years ago.

Things are changing, but it's a slow process, and undoing the harm that aggressive formula advertising did a generation or so ago is proving to be very difficult.

I would find it irritating if after someone had been given the info on smoking and said "thanks but I don't want to quit" someone kept badgering them about it. That's how I feel.

Who's badgering you?
In my experience, once women switch over, that's the end of it.

lack of information about bottle feeding. I wasnt given any information

Information on making up bottles safely is given. It's also on the packet. What other info do you need.

It's a total myth to say that people who ask are not given info on formula feeding. Health visitors in particular are very good on it.

OhShutUpThomas during pregnancy I found a few people kept trying to convince me to commit to bf when I said I wanted to see how it goes and that irritated me because I felt like my decision should have been respected

How did I know if I would find it easy or hard? How did I know if my baby would latch (he struggled and would scream at my boobs)?

Also this didn't happen to me but midwives refusing to give formula does happen

I can ask HV but during my pregnancy no info was given. I didn't know anything about ff until I did it

"OhShutUpThomas see the post about reading"

If child reads well without doing reading practice at home then what is the problem?

My two boys are timetable champions and in extension sets for maths and they don't do maths practice at home either. None.

Just because something is recommended by the government and appears to have important benefits for children (as breastfeeding, reading practice and maths practice do) it doesn't mean we HAVE to do it if we don't fancy it. You've spent the entire thread arguing this. Don't start back tracking now!

I'm not backtracking. You're likening not breastfeeding to not teaching your child to read which is a completely different issue. The only way you can argue that is if you don't ever do anything that isn't statistically the "best" option. Ever cooked a ready meal? Ever bought non fair trade non organic? Ever let your kids drink a fizzy drink? Ever left your kids with s babysitter while you've gone out?

Do you personally believe all women who can bf should?

I think she's saying that all women who physically can breast feed should want to.

Writer how can anyone say that though? People are all different and have different priorities, that's normal

Spot on writer.